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  #51  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantus Anchors View Post
I apologize for the confusion, but do to the lack of communication Jeff was not informed that I am a paid advertiser, and I hope will remove this post once this gets cleared up.
Greg - I regret that you appear to have been poorly treated by SailNet. I hope it works out quickly. Given the language used I hope you get the sort of public redress you deserve.
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  #52  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
The Bruce is/was a great design but in my experience up-sizing them by TWO sizes is much more in-line with how they actually hold. Much has been written on properly sizing Bruce style anchors.. It is not necessarily the weight of the anchor but the surface area biting into the mud that matters...
Agreed. I think CQRs and Bruce anchors both should be two sizes up from manufacturer recommendations. The Delta should be one up. Rocna and Spade seem to work fine at the recommended size. Fortress seems to be fine at recommended size also. I can't speak so well to other brands from personal experience.
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  #53  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantus Anchors View Post
I apologize for the confusion, but do to the lack of communication Jeff was not informed that I am a paid advertiser, and I hope will remove this post once this gets cleared up.
Sincerely Greg Mantus Anchors
I don't understand the problem - you clearly identified yourself as the manufacturer and were merely answering the questions put to you by the members.

JeffH - can you clarify this?
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  #54  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Jeff H was just doing his job! All is well!
A post was erased in the confusion, so I will re-post it, here:

There has been several readers expressing concern about the bolts and suggesting that bolts would be the weakest link.

The bolts are oversized with such margin that discussions regarding bolt strength are not really relevant. A single bolt is more than sufficient to deal with expected loads, even in a hurricane situation. Just think cleats on boats are bolted in, wheels on the car are bolted on. A grade 2 bolt has min yield stress 33000 psi, 1/2 inch bolt is good for approx 25000 pounds and we have 4 of them on our 35 and 45 pound models. These models are sized boats that weigh 15-20,000 pounds so you could literally suspend the boat of that bolt. For example expected loads on a 45 lbs anchor if properly sized for a boat are less than 10,000 even in the worst imaginable conditions. The chain, the cleat, or the shank hole will brake long before the bolts on the anchor will, not to mention the shank will bend. Now the reason we did not have the shank plate take the load is bc we found that a smooth bottom on the fluke is very important for penetration. Prototypes with shank slotted through the fluke did not do well in hard bottoms bc of added volume to drive through undisturbed hard clay for example. This is why Spade Anchor has difficulty in really dense soils, the nose has too much volume.
The nuts on our anchors are to be used with compression washers and grease and if you don't feel like ever taking the anchor apart until the time comes to re-galvanize it, than you can forget about the bolts after initial assembly.
We do offer a lifetime warranty on the anchor and all its parts.
I hope this alleviates some of the concerns raised about using bolts. Again remember bolts are on wheels of your car, attach rotors of the helicopter blades, there is a whole world bolted out there..... of-course size matters!

I hope this conversation alleviates some concern about the use of bolts in the expected load path on our anchor.

However, the discussion on bolts and anchors ability to break down for storage is a tangent. The main point I want to communicate and hopefully convince some of you
Is that Mantus Anchor's ability to DIG IN is unparalleled. This was the whole point of the design after all, otherwise there is no room for just another anchor.
Ok my rent is over.... Happy 4th everyone

Greg
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  #55  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Let me intervene here so that we can move on.

Mantus Anchors is indeed a NEW Sailnet advertiser in good standing. He has been dealing with our marketing person here at Sailnet and I was away on the water last week enjoying the blistering heat of Chesapeake Bay (but nice breezes) and often had very limited connectivity with the marketing person here at Sailnet who had been working with Mantus.

I was unaware of the dealings that Mantus had with our marketing person and when asked by the Moderators if Mantus was an advertiser I replied No and they did their job based on the 'mis information' that I gave them.

I want to publicly express my deepest apologies to the membership here and to Mantus Anchors for this mistake.

The responsibility falls solely on me for this mistake.

We are taking steps to insure that I am not the sole conduit in the future for information regarding new advertisers coming on line so that this type of unfortunate mistake never occurs again.

regards

Jeff J
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  #56  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by administrator View Post
The responsibility falls solely on me for this mistake.
Thank you Jeff.
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  #57  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

And I too wish to weigh in and express my sincere apologies. I had accidentally banned Greg on the erroneous assumption that he was an not a paid advertising member and who was posting commercial materials and links in violation of Forum Rules and disregarding warnings against doing so. I wish to apologize publically for my actions in banning Greg and Mantus Anchors, but also more forcefully and perhaps more significantly for my choice of words in doing so. While the responsibility for the mistake in banning Mantus can be shared, my choice of words, was a mistake all my own, and for that I am truly sorry.

So that everyone understands little more about this, one of the less visible, and perhaps more controversial (amoungst us moderators) aspects of being a SailNet moderator is addressing advertising embedded within member avatars, signatures and posts. We treat the restriction against posting commercial material very seriously and try very hard to be fair minded in this.

As an unwritten policy, we, moderators will remove any links from non-advertising member's posts and send a PM to that member advising them that they are in violation, please desist or become an advertiser. (We do summarily ban obvious spammers.)

The Moderator's standard practice when there is a second violation is that we send a more strongly worded warning with the threat of temporary banning. In this case, as Jeff_J had explained above, we had been inaccurately told that Mantus Anchors were not an advertiser, the second message went out, and seemed to be ignored. As a result, I responded by issuing a temporary ban. Mantus was an advertiser and my ban and choice of associated language was eroneous and unfair.

beyond this case, member posting of self-promoting material remains a complex issue. On one hand, being able to post commerical materials is one of the benefits of being a paid advertiser. Allowing members to freely post commerical material therefore diminishes the benefit of being a paid SailNet advertiser. SailNet is in part funded by advertising and so this privilege is important to protect.

Where this becomes awkward is that forum rules allow members to post links to other people's commercial sites. And perhaps more awkward still, is when we have a long term member who is posting a link to their own site, which has some enterprise with either some relevance to a discussion or has minimal finacial gain; such as perhaps a book they have written, or a blog with advertising.

What makes this seem uncomfortable to me personally is that on one hand, I and my fellow moderators believe that we need to both be fair, and appear to be fair in how we administer the rules.

But on the other hand, I believe that it is important for SailNet to support its members and in that regard, it is useful for members to be able to read information "straight from the horse's mouth" but also to provide a place for long term members to talk about what they are doing that might be usefuil to our community or simply discuss what they do outside of SailNet.

The other associated issue is that we sometimes get manufacturers who come here only to promote their product in less than forthright ways. We have had members join under assumed names to either recommed their product or slam their competition. But we also have had members who identified who they were and were posting inaccurate information promoting their product, or grossly inaccurate slams against their competitors. This form of activity violates a different forum rule than the prohibition on posting an ad, but becomes harder to enforce when the violator is a paid advertiser.

These are types of ongoing issues that the moderators and owners have been discussing, and we are hoping to provide creative ways of addressing these issues in the future. I do regret that Mantus Anchor was unfairly treated in the interim.

Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 07-05-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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  #58  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

So I have been following this thread for two reasons;
1 The topic of anchors interests me as I will be buying at some point in the near future.
2 The design incorporating bolts into the anchor is both interesting and worrying(in my un-informed mind) Greg, it appears, has cleared this up.

So a mistake was made by sailnet and Greg stood by, waiting for it to be cleared up, which it was, with a detailed explanation.

Two thumbs up to both the moderators and Greg for there response to this, It speaks well of both party's. Other anchor manufactures have not done so well with their online presence.


Greg I took a look at your website. I have a question around anchor size and your recommendations. I sail a Contessa 26, 5400 pounds, 26 feet in length. Your site recommends a 25 pound anchor for 20-30 ft boats < 5000 pounds. Given my boat is 26 feet but weights 5400 pounds would I go a size up in your opinion?

John
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  #59  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Main,

I understand the wt vs surface area when it comes to holding power. For me any how, the smallish one follows the local minimum race rule so one does not hobby horse the boat due to too much wt in the front. BUT below, a bigger one would be available. Then smaller, is not designed to in reality, hold in 50+ knot winds. If I get a smaller one, ie around 8-10 lbs, then I would probably go to something in the 20-25lb range for the overnight style anchor.

Along with "most" of the soil I anchor in here in puget sound is fine to course sand. There is some what I would call true mud, ie silt to clay size particles. Most is sand sized, ie .2-2mm or larger particles.

I also do not wish to go to a fotress as the main one, as even tho an 11 lb one will hold my boat per say, at least locally, folks that have them, can not get them to set. My gut tells me, a semi buried Bruce/claw/spade or equal would hold me better than an equal chunk of metal not dug in from an initial standpoint, or at least something that will hold me if in a race, wind dies, current heads me towards some rocks, I need something to hold me until the wind pipes ups. Typically 2-3 knots of current at best.

My case, two anchors for different reasons shapes and forms.

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Last edited by blt2ski; 07-06-2012 at 01:49 AM.
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  #60  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyandjebus View Post
So I have been following this thread for two reasons;
1 The topic of anchors interests me as I will be buying at some point in the near future.
2 The design incorporating bolts into the anchor is both interesting and worrying(in my un-informed mind) Greg, it appears, has cleared this up.

So a mistake was made by sailnet and Greg stood by, waiting for it to be cleared up, which it was, with a detailed explanation.

Two thumbs up to both the moderators and Greg for there response to this, It speaks well of both party's. Other anchor manufactures have not done so well with their online presence.


Greg I took a look at your website. I have a question around anchor size and your recommendations. I sail a Contessa 26, 5400 pounds, 26 feet in length. Your site recommends a 25 pound anchor for 20-30 ft boats < 5000 pounds. Given my boat is 26 feet but weights 5400 pounds would I go a size up in your opinion?

John
John,
Short answer: I would say that for coastal cruising and day excursions I think a 25 lbs anchor will be just fine, our recommendations are very conservative....
If you are planning a cruise to remote areas and are going to be leaving your boat unattended for a long period of time I would size up.

This topic is very contentious, mostly based on mariners experience/extrapolations. An anchor that holds great in firm bottoms will fail you in silt or won’t set in kelp. Sizing up decreases the likelihood that you will drag in (silt) and increases the likelihood of setting in kelp/weeds etc.
So for best penetrating performance I can vouch for Mantus. Sizing? well the bigger the better!!! I know you heard that before... Its always a compromise between margin of safety vs ease of use and practicality.

Greg
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Last edited by Mantus Anchors; 07-06-2012 at 06:59 PM. Reason: typo
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