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  #61  
Old 07-08-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Greg, of Mantus Anchors,

Thanks for "weighing in" here at Sailnet and welcome! I am pleased to see more and more anchors being designed and marketed and designs becoming closer to ideal.

Personally, I like the fact that your anchor has bolts and the fact that it can be disassembled for storage is a feature, not a flaw for me. I would like to see your company succeed though and I would like to offer this advice:

Have an independent company do destruction tests on your anchors. Once that's out of the way, you can point to the destruction tests and say "see, the bolts are not a problem." I fear that until you do this, and can show a certified piece of paper and photos of a twisted anchor, people will always be suspicious of your bolts.

For some reason, people trust steel (though if it is improperly made it can be soft enough to bend with you hands or brittle enough to shatter) and they trust welds (difficult to get the quality control here) but they don't always trust bolts. People seem to when they drive over an iron bridge, and trust then to hold their mast up (chain-plates) and their keel on (keel bolts) but when staring at a bolt, people are suspicious of it. They just are.

Destroy an anchor and put the proof front and center on your marketing materials so that you answer the inevitable "bolt-question" before it is even asked.

Good luck with your business. If it tests out well in the future I'll consider buying one.

MedSailor

PS What would happen if THIS bolt failed while you were driving across the bridge?
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  #62  
Old 07-08-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Greg, of Mantus Anchors,

Thanks for "weighing in" here at Sailnet and welcome! I am pleased to see more and more anchors being designed and marketed and designs becoming closer to ideal.

Personally, I like the fact that your anchor has bolts and the fact that it can be disassembled for storage is a feature, not a flaw for me. I would like to see your company succeed though and I would like to offer this advice:

Have an independent company do destruction tests on your anchors. Once that's out of the way, you can point to the destruction tests and say "see, the bolts are not a problem." I fear that until you do this, and can show a certified piece of paper and photos of a twisted anchor, people will always be suspicious of your bolts.

For some reason, people trust steel (though if it is improperly made it can be soft enough to bend with you hands or brittle enough to shatter) and they trust welds (difficult to get the quality control here) but they don't always trust bolts. People seem to when they drive over an iron bridge, and trust then to hold their mast up (chain-plates) and their keel on (keel bolts) but when staring at a bolt, people are suspicious of it. They just are.

Destroy an anchor and put the proof front and center on your marketing materials so that you answer the inevitable "bolt-question" before it is even asked.

Good luck with your business. If it tests out well in the future I'll consider buying one.

MedSailor

PS What would happen if THIS bolt failed while you were driving across the bridge?
Med Sailor, in response to your question regarding destructive testing we are in the process of getting Loyds Register Type Approval.

We expected that customers might question bolts on an anchor, simply bc it wasn't done before (i.e bolts used in the load path of an anchor) that's why we didn't just oversize bolts, we over sized them with such margin that no one could question the design. There may be we were a bit too confident...

The important thing is!:
-This anchor is the safest piece of gear on the market, not because of strength of its construction or presence/absence of bolts but because in a rough, scary situation you can trust that it will set and set right away. It will set were Rocna or a Spade will not, in places Bruce/CQR/Delta will not set. These places exist and are real. People loose their boats everyday. Boats are rarely lost due to an anchor falling apart, but are often lost bc the anchor doesn't properly set or doesn't set at all. We find these places and test there. That's what you see on the videos... and we will continue to test and film bc this is the only I know of how to show the consumer that MANTUS is most reliable anchor you can buy. That is what the anchor was designed for....
I know this from pulling many anchors in different places hundreds of times... My job is to convince everyone else...
Greg
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Last edited by Mantus Anchors; 07-08-2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason: typo
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  #63  
Old 07-08-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

This is a question to the SailNet community..
If you know of an area where its particularly difficult to set an anchor, please email us.
We will pick a few of the most treacherous spots we find and go there!
Greg
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  #64  
Old 07-09-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantus Anchors View Post
The important thing is!:
-This anchor is the safest piece of gear on the market, not because of strength of its construction or presence/absence of bolts but because in a rough, scary situation you can trust that it will set and set right away. It will set were Rocna or a Spade will not, in places Bruce/CQR/Delta will not set. These places exist and are real. People loose their boats everyday. Boats are rarely lost due to an anchor falling apart, but are often lost bc the anchor doesn't properly set or doesn't set at all. We find these places and test there. That's what you see on the videos... and we will continue to test and film bc this is the only I know of how to show the consumer that MANTUS is most reliable anchor you can buy. That is what the anchor was designed for....
I know this from pulling many anchors in different places hundreds of times... My job is to convince everyone else...
Greg

Greg,

Having also tested piles of anchors I am finding it tough to garner how or why your anchor, of such similar design to a Manson Supreme or Rocna, sets so much better? I currently own a Manson Supreme, Rocna, two Spades, two genuine CQR's, Fortress, genuine Bruce, Danforth and Supermax. I have also owned a Delta Fast Set so am not just some guy who's only ever owned a CQR.. All of these anchors have been thoroughly tested by me to determine which anchor will be placed on the bow of our boat. I also own a 5000 pound digital load cell which I use in my testing. This is a piece of gear that the other 99.95% of boaters don't own to use in making a truly educated decision about how to protect their family and vessel.

Can you please give us a detailed breakdown of "why" it can do this better and what you changed to make that so? I know why the others don't perform as well but I am having a tough time swallowing such a vast "improvement" over a Manson Supreme or Rocna?
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  #65  
Old 07-09-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Greg,

Having also tested piles of anchors I am finding it tough to garner how or why your anchor, of such similar design to a Manson Supreme or Rocna, sets so much better? I currently own a Manson Supreme, Rocna, two Spades, two genuine CQR's, Fortress, genuine Bruce, Danforth and Supermax. I have also owned a Delta Fast Set so am not just some guy who's only ever owned a CQR.. All of these anchors have been thoroughly tested by me to determine which anchor will be placed on the bow of our boat. I also own a 5000 pound digital load cell which I use in my testing. This is a piece of gear that the other 99.95% of boaters don't own to use in making a truly educated decision about how to protect their family and vessel.

Can you please give us a detailed breakdown of "why" it can do this better and what you changed to make that so? I know why the others don't perform as well but I am having a tough time swallowing such a vast "improvement" over a Manson Supreme or Rocna?
Yes, of course:
The main change MANTUS has from Manson, Rocna duo is: we made the butt really wide so there is more weight on the nose as you drag the anchor. Of course there is much more such as the shape of the chisel, slick profile, shank length and position that work in concert to improve penetrating ability.
Other competitor are very different:
Spade is really bulky at the nose which causes problems in a really dense bottom
CQR/Delta/Fortress have very limited penetrating ability
Bruce sets very superficially in dense soils and resurfaces with increasing loads (actually really tricky bc it gives you a sensation of security)
Greg
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Last edited by Mantus Anchors; 07-09-2012 at 09:46 AM.
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  #66  
Old 07-09-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

I too am a future buyer who grew up reading about and working with Danforths and Deltas, so I am interested from a casual but interested perspective.

One area of interest from me is the consistent use of 10:1 scope in your tests. I see the shank of some of your competitors running through the mud when a 7:1 or 5:1 scope may have the initial set lifting the shank off the bottom.

I would be interested to see some tests with a 5:1 scope (in betwee the 'normally' recommended 7:1 and the 3:1 used by all chain rodes) and how your anchor performs. This is just one small area where your testing looks great but the conditions are perhaps not the norm.

Anyway, nice to see you on this site and ready to talk about a product that you believe in.

Steve
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Old 07-09-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Hey guys,
Sailnet newbie here. Just wanted to add my experience with the anchor since I bought one 2 months ago. So far it has been quite impressive. I could never get my Delta to set in this one spot in Galveston Bay. I saw these guys at the local Texas boat show and thought I would give them a try. So far A ++, I even tried setting in my back yard with thick grass and it still goes in...
I will keep you guys updated!
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  #68  
Old 07-10-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricanesailor View Post
Hey guys,
Sailnet newbie here. Just wanted to add my experience with the anchor since I bought one 2 months ago. So far it has been quite impressive. I could never get my Delta to set in this one spot in Galveston Bay. I saw these guys at the local Texas boat show and thought I would give them a try. So far A ++, I even tried setting in my back yard with thick grass and it still goes in...
I will keep you guys updated!
That would be a fun video to make, and for us to watch. Are you game to make a quick video?

MedSailor
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  #69  
Old 07-10-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Greg,

Having also tested piles of anchors I am finding it tough to garner how or why your anchor, of such similar design to a Manson Supreme or Rocna, sets so much better? I currently own a Manson Supreme, Rocna, two Spades, two genuine CQR's, Fortress, genuine Bruce, Danforth and Supermax. I have also owned a Delta Fast Set so am not just some guy who's only ever owned a CQR.. All of these anchors have been thoroughly tested by me to determine which anchor will be placed on the bow of our boat. I also own a 5000 pound digital load cell which I use in my testing. This is a piece of gear that the other 99.95% of boaters don't own to use in making a truly educated decision about how to protect their family and vessel.
Greg,

Allow me to suggest that you might want to send Main_Sail one of your anchors to test. He, and his opinions, are highly respected not only here on Sailnet but also on other forums. Main tests many pieces of gear with good scientific method, has the equipment to do it well and documents the experiments well. I also have no reason to believe that Main wouldn't give your anchor a fair test and an impartial write up as well.

I think that much of the marketing success that Rocna experiences today is from internet marketing on forums (though I didn't like how it was done) and I believe that these forums are a powerful place to get a foothold for your gear, so that they can start appearing on bows and get conversations started on docs.

I would like to add that I do not know Main Sail personally, have no affiliation with him, have never met him and I don't even know his real name. I know him from this forum, other fourms and his website. Assuming your product is good, I want your venture to succeed, which is my motivation for this suggestion. I think sending Main an anchor to test may be a good way to do just that. I would think that letting Main keep the anchor for his troubles would be a nice gesture also, but not if you (or Main) thought that would taint the impartiality of the test.

You can read through some of his old posts here and on other forums to get an idea for the type of posting he does and the level of respect he garners from the community. His website also has good examples of tests and write ups he has done, without compensation (that I know of) for the betterment of the boating community.

Main_Sail's website: Compass Marine's Photo Galleries at pbase.com

Best Regards,

MedSailor
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  #70  
Old 07-10-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tankersteve View Post
One area of interest from me is the consistent use of 10:1 scope in your tests. I see the shank of some of your competitors running through the mud when a 7:1 or 5:1 scope may have the initial set lifting the shank off the bottom.

I would be interested to see some tests with a 5:1 scope (in betwee the 'normally' recommended 7:1 and the 3:1 used by all chain rodes) and how your anchor performs. This is just one small area where your testing looks great but the conditions are perhaps not the norm.

Anyway, nice to see you on this site and ready to talk about a product that you believe in.

Steve
Steve,

Until an anchor "bites" or resists on the bottom all anchors are essentially at infinite scope at the shank end, up to about 2:1 scope..

In this video the chain is at 2:1 and you can see that the shank barely bumps off infinite... If this CQR had "bit" then the 2:1 would have had a negative effect on the hook penetrating and remaining set but it really never left infinite scope enough to matter, even at just 2:1.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 07-10-2012 at 07:20 AM.
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