SailNet Community

SailNet Community (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/)
-   Gear & Maintenance (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/)
-   -   Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market... (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/85093-another-next-generation-anchor-enters-market.html)

MedSailor 03-17-2012 12:58 PM

Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
TEST VIDEOS/ NEWS | MANTUS ANCHORS

Looks like there's a new Mansocna on the market. This one claims to be superior to all the others (who doesn't), but it is novel in that it is a roll-bar type anchor that disassembles for stowage. The spade is a "next generation" anchor that has this feature, but if you're of the roll-bar faith this might appeal.
http://mantusanchors.com/images/products.jpg

I don't see any evidence of 3rd party testing yet and one can never trust videos/tests done by the maufactuter, but I'll stay tuned. It also seems like it's pretty heavy by their recommendations chart. Don't know if that's design inefficiency or if they're just hugely conservative with their size recomendations. They could also be recommending "2 sizes up" in order to edge out the competition in upcoming tests.

MedSailor

PS Being a disciple of the almighty Bruce it's a big pet peeve of mine when they test the "bruce" against their anchor using a Lewmar Claw. I couldn't tell if they were using a Bruce or Lewmar, but I do know that neither makes a 25lb anchor like they claimed to test.

SloopJonB 03-17-2012 10:32 PM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MedSailor (Post 846873)
TEST VIDEOS/ NEWS | MANTUS ANCHORS

Looks like there's a new Mansocna on the market. This one claims to be superior to all the others (who doesn't), but it is novel in that it is a roll-bar type anchor that disassembles for stowage. The spade is a "next generation" anchor that has this feature, but if you're of the roll-bar faith this might appeal.
http://mantusanchors.com/images/products.jpg

I don't see any evidence of 3rd party testing yet and one can never trust videos/tests done by the maufactuter, but I'll stay tuned. It also seems like it's pretty heavy by their recommendations chart. Don't know if that's design inefficiency or if they're just hugely conservative with their size recomendations. They could also be recommending "2 sizes up" in order to edge out the competition in upcoming tests.

MedSailor

PS Being a disciple of the almighty Bruce it's a big pet peeve of mine when they test the "bruce" against their anchor using a Lewmar Claw. I couldn't tell if they were using a Bruce or Lewmar, but I do know that neither makes a 25lb anchor like they claimed to test.

Med, they are probably using a 10Kg - 22# but I've seen them called 25# in certain "non-metric countries" (that shall remain nameless. ;))

P.S. is the real Bruce noticeably better than the Lewmar copy? Details please.

MedSailor 03-17-2012 11:00 PM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SloopJonB (Post 847047)
P.S. is the real Bruce noticeably better than the Lewmar copy? Details please.

I think so.

From The Bruce Anchor Group website:
"At first glance the genuine Bruce anchor and the look-alikes that have flooded the market appear to be the same anchor. Close inspection will reveal that the look-alike is different in a number of disturbing ways. If you line up a row of the look-alikes you will find further disturbing features: whereas the genuine Bruce anchor has the same geometry throughout the anchor range, the look-alikes have shank angles that vary widely throughout the anchor range and even between same-size look-alikes... Would you leap from a plane with a haversack on your back because it looks like the real thing and comes at a rock bottom price? Remember an anchor is a safety device upon which the survival of you and your boat may ultimately depend."

What they say sounds convincing to me. Shank angle is one of the most important aspects of anchor design. The original patent Danforth has a fluke angle of 32deg. Why thirtyTWO degrees and not 33 or 31? Why would the shank angle vary so much between knock-offs or between sizes of Lewmar Claws. Did Lewmar spend millions of dollars of testing and find better angles? I would wager not.

The Bruce Anchor Group spends a mint on R&D to make their anchors work. Most of their business is holding oil-rigs to the ocean floor. Why do they need to spend so much on R&D Because what we ask of them is difficult to achieve. They must set quickly in all bottom types, hold on short scope, self-reset from an oblique angle, be easy to retrieve from above... etc etc. The design of anchors is exacting. Otherwise any old hook on a rope would set quickly in all bottoms, Minor changes can and do make massive differences in performance. Personally I would never anchor overnight to a look-alike anchor, only one that has passed some 3rd party tests and/or done the miles of experience on many boats in the real world.

MedSailor (faithful follower of the cult of Bruce):D

jrd22 03-17-2012 11:39 PM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
That bolt together anchor kind of scares me. Maybe it's meant as a back up to be carried in emergencies, but I wouldn't consider it for a main anchor (those bolts holding the roll bar on look designed to snap off).
I'm also a Bruce guy. I've looked at the Lewmar claws and there seems to be a big variance in shank angle and also fluke curve when you compare a couple of the same model on the floor (and they just look like they're made of melted down tonka toys).

cupper3 03-18-2012 12:32 AM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MedSailor (Post 847057)
.........
The Bruce Anchor Group spends a mint on R&D to make their anchors work. Most of their business is holding oil-rigs to the ocean floor. Why do they need to spend so much on R&D Because what we ask of them is difficult to achieve. They must set quickly in all bottom types, hold on short scope, self-reset from an oblique angle, be easy to retrieve from above... etc etc. The design of anchors is exacting. ............

They may do a lot of R&D for rig work, but when is the last time they changed the anchor sailors use as a result of their R&D work? Not saying it is a bad anchor, just wondering.

tdw 03-18-2012 12:40 AM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
If Bruce themselves no longer manufacture small boat anchors where do "genuine" Bruce anchors now come from ?

MedSailor 03-18-2012 01:23 AM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
Bruce hasn't changed their consumer anchor design for the betterment of us all because they stopped making consumer anchors. Too many people flocked to the Lewmar Claw. Who's to blame them, it was 1/4 or less of the price and who really knows if it's different enough to drag you onto the rocks.

Here's a thought experiment. If I can weld up a Masocna look-alike would you buy it from me? Those things cost hundreds of dollars! I'll make you one for $99.00

TDW, Bruces are hard to come by now. I got lucky and saw a neighbor unshacklilng his 66lb beast in favor of a Manson. I offered him $250 for it, and he sold it to me for $150. They can still be found at swap meets, craigslist etc.

As for the bolts holding the anchor together, why would that bother you? Properly sized bolts of the correct steel can be stronger than what they're bolted into. After all, it's bolts that hold your chain plates into your hull, and thus keep your rig upright right? Some boats even have bolts holding their keels on....

MedSailor

xymotic 03-18-2012 03:29 AM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
Put me in the bolts should not be on an anchor... camp. TO be fair, those don't seem like they would affect holding if they sheered.

BUT... you are introducing a LOT of variables.

They are strong IF they are of high Quality
IF the vendor doesn't switch them out on you
IF you check them for corrosion
IF they never see a side load

As to your other points, no, my rig is not on bolted chainplates. My Chainplates are 1/2" Steel that is integrally Welded to the hull :)

PCP 03-18-2012 10:36 AM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
It seems very similar to the new "cheap" Spade. I don't see that one on that test, nor the Spade for that matter.:D

They say they have tested against the "reliable" anchors in the Industry". Didn't they consider that the Spade is a reliable anchor in the Industry:confused:?

On the other hand that "cheap" spade had disapeared from the market as if it had never existed. Is this the same anchor?

Regards

Paulo

tdw 03-18-2012 06:53 PM

Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MedSailor (Post 847087)

snippy ....

TDW, Bruces are hard to come by now. I got lucky and saw a neighbor unshacklilng his 66lb beast in favor of a Manson. I offered him $250 for it, and he sold it to me for $150. They can still be found at swap meets, craigslist etc.

snippy ....

MedSailor

Med,
Any idea when Bruce stopped manufacturing small ? Interests sake only as we have one on our girl. Have to say I love the thing. Sets like a rock in fact. Overall I prefer it to the Rocna we had on the old girl. Only negative I find is that it sometimes likes to come up backwards and I have to give it a whack with boathook to spin it round.
It was factory fitted but to be honest I have no idea if it is the real deal or a copy. Must check that out next weekend. I admit I simply presumed genuine.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012