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CS30 Structural Grid Repair In Bilge

14K views 52 replies 23 participants last post by  Faster 
#1 ·
Greetings,
Does anyone know what the internal composition of the stringers in the bilge of a CS30 consist of? I'm wondering if the grid structure is hollow, or has coring?
Has anyone repaired/replaced sections that were cracked due to grounding the boat?
Many Thanks.
 
#30 ·
Here's the listing for the damaged boat - they are dreaming with that asking price. 1987 CS 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

There are 5 other CS30's listed for under 35k, several of them under 30k.

cs Boats For Sale

I doubt you could fix that boat properly for less than what its market value is. And with others for under 30k that haven't hit a rock why bother.

My guess is that the insurance company wrote it off and are trying to get something for what's left.
 
#31 ·
If you have access to a thermal camera (mid IR) you could do a noninvasive survey of the damage and see if it is more than you want to deal with. If you dont have one (like most people) you could try calling around to professional surveyors they are starting to use the tech to do their jobs. Also depending on how much you are wanting to invest I believe FLIR systems has a rental program that you could use. I use a FLIR camera in my research and they are by far the best on the market (great support too!)
 
#33 · (Edited)
I'm not sure that is the reason really. CS is very well known in Canada and in particular Ontario. It is an unknown, obscure brand in most states.

Pat Sturgeon Yachts in Mississauga Ontario has almost specialized in CS over the years. He currently lists 20 CS boats out of 101 sailboat listings.

Out of 7 CS30's he has listed currently one is at 33,900 and the other 6 are between 37k and 40k.
 
#34 ·
I'll say it one more time.. KK I think this damage is beyond the DIY level for good, reliable repair. This is massive damage, much of which may well yet be unseen. Even for free, your repairs will come close to the lower cost example in mt's posted listings. Buy one of those boats and you'll be sailing tomorrow without all the grief, ifs and "oh sh**ts" that are likely to pile up on you with this one.
 
#37 ·
Not all the damage is apparent without some serious grinding. The grid is not your only problem. Delam will show up later when water gets into fissures in the glass. Throw in a couple of freeze/thaw cycles and the boat will start leaking like a sieve when you subject it to rig loading and some shock loading. You might find a fix price less than $35K but the good glass guys are hard to find. I had a similar problem with a boat I owned. Insurance company wrote it off. Don't walk on this one, run like Usain Bolt is chasing you with a meat cleaver.
 

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#38 ·
I can GUARANTEE you there is more hidden damage that you will only uncover as you get along in the project. Oh, and once you uncover that, you'll probably find some more stuff that's buggered up. Cynical? Maybe. But also a lesson I've learned twice on wooden one designs I restored/am restoring. Fortunately the cost of my lesson was relatively small.

Do you really want to get half way through a repair job, find out it's really hard crappy work, get dejected, maybe run short on funds for any number of reasons (change/lose your job, get divorced, have a kid, get sick, whatever) and then 2 years from now have a half fixed boat that you've sunk some $$ into and you still aren't sailing?

But hey, if you're determined, then my hat is off to you and good luck. Make sure you take lots of pics.
 
#40 ·
. . . half way through a repair job, find out it's really hard crappy work, get dejected, maybe run short on funds for any number of reasons (change/lose your job, get divorced, have a kid, get sick, whatever) and then 2 years from now have a half fixed boat that you've sunk some $$ . . .
OOOPS!:eek::eek::eek: Seen this way too many times working in marine business. Stroll around the boatyards, talk to the locals and hear the stories about 'that boat over there', 'this guy over here', 'I remember this n that'.

Look at any restoration (anything for that matter) as a budgeted job. Labor, materials, transport, storage, lift in/lift out PLUS 10-20% safety net for arisings (those are the things you can't see that will be uncovered and must be done to get the project to completion) and a target completion date (plan for it to take longer). Don't forget the out of pocket tax on labor/material/handling that nobody gets back. Figure out what your time is worth in $ & compare how long you will have to work your paying job to cover the cost.

It's kind like taking your date out for a movie & dinner. $100 + tax divided by your hourly wage and that's how long you have to work to break even. All that for some pleasure.:D With all the hours & $ you spend on this project you could instead be sailing on a well found boat overnight. If it's the purchase price that doesn't work, maybe a boat partnership is an alternative.

With all the CS30 on the market you might find a highly motivated seller looking to cut a sweet win/win deal for sailing this summer.:cool:
 
#39 ·
You're getting tons of great input and advise here. Why don't you get a pro or two on site, PAY THEM FOR THEIR EVALUATION TIME, and get some worst case scenario quotes. Andy ******* at ******* Custom Yachts ******* Custom Yachts is nearby and Nick Bailey at Bristol Marine Bristol_Marine_Ltd » Page 1 of 3 in Port Credit. Both have full service facilities, proper shops, experienced staff. Many of their staff are from former boatbuilders like C & C, CS, Grampian, Whitby Boat Works. You might find that they have already quoted on this boat for others.
 
#41 ·
Ok, ok. I think I've finally been beaten into submission. I can't deny that all the feedback has been eye opening, and that it would be a daunting project to jump into.
Perhaps continuing to save my pennies until I can afford a structurally sound boat is a better route to take...
Thanks to everyone for potentially saving me from a massive headache.
 
#45 ·
I would recommend you hire a professional to at least look at it and make recommendations on repairs. If you are doing the work yourself hiring a pro as a consultant will save you time and money. You will get a lot of advice here but nobody can really give you good advice without seeing it up close and personal. I take it you do not have insurance? If the repairs are not done right the results will at best devalue the boat at worst end in disaster.Pay particular attention to the keel attachments point, lost keels have cost lives. Good luck
 
#46 ·
.......I take it you do not have insurance? .
The OP is/was considering buying this boat.. he's not (yet) the owner. It was supposedly at a bargain price to reflect the damage but few of us saw that as realistic.

But you're correct, and he's been urged already to either walk or get a professional appraisal of the whole picture.
 
#47 · (Edited)
Well, I guess unless some other unfortunate soul chooses to try and bring this boat back from the dead...I think we can safely say another fin-keeler bites the dust...lol..jk ;) :D

In all seriousness...you guys all did great and really helped Krazy out by making him "go view the body" on this one....I admire his drive and willingness to invest sweat equity but you guys did what had to be done and seems he will be okay now...There will be another boat KK...good luck
 
#49 ·
I actually fixed a similar but smaller case on a 1976 Hunter 27. When they picked my boat up to put it in the water the marina called me and said the boat came up 2 inches but the keel hadn't budged! The problem was pretty obvious, it was a really poor design. I carefully supported the keel and hull, then ground out the entire structural grid down to a bare hull. I used a coarse carbide cutter designed for beveling steel pipe. It me several days of really nasty work to remove everything. The stringers had been made of wood, and I made all new stringers then put it all back together using gallons and gallons of epoxy and many yards of woven roving. The bilge had always had water in it, now it remained dry. I sold it to a guy who sailed it for the next 10 years from New Jersey to Florida and back with no problems.

My current boast also had keel structural problems. Bad design again. I had to rip out nearly the entire interior to get access to fix it. It is fixed and I am trying to get her back in the water this season, without refitting all of interior at this point.

Yes the value of the boat in question is essentially what you could get if you parted it out completely and trashed the hull. Fixing it is a huge job, and I for one wouldn't do it again!

Experience. It's what allows you to recognize a mistake, when you make it again!

Gary H. Lucas
 
#50 ·
Hey everyone!
Many thanks again to all of you for taking the time to describe your experiences/troubles/tribulations and for giving me your honest feedback. Without it, I may very well have done something rash and gotten myself in over my head and ability...

All that said, I am happy to announce that as of today I am the proud new owner of a C&C 27 MK5. She is of 1985 vintage and has been very well taken care of. Knock on wood also structurally sound hahaha... I bought her for $15000 from an older gent who is retiring from the sport, and has equipped her out nicely. I'll be sure to post pictures once I take possession.
Fair winds and happy sailing all!
 
#53 ·
Good move! That's a nice boat that will do you nicely for quite some time, I expect, and if you keep her in good kit when you do go to move up you'll get most of that back, or at least have a relatively easy re-sale.
 
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