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  #1  
Old 04-19-2012
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Preparing for All-Grip

I have a friend that has a 1970 something Pearson that he is in the process of restoring.

The topsides has very thick 1/4" gel-coat that is spider cracked everyplace not just at stress points. The cracks go all the way to the mat underneath.

He tried using a RA sander with 60 grit paper and it takes hours to get even a small section ground down to glass.
The when you get to the glass it still looks very pitted.

What would be the best way to prep the topsides for an All-Grip job?
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Old 04-20-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

Awlgrip needs to be applied by a professional. Many people affectionaly call it "all drip" as it is very difficult to work with. If applying paint yourselves, look at Imron or Brightsides or similar and follow directions for painting your boat. You do NOT need to sand down the gel oat to the mat. You only need to remove the gel coat if you are regelcoating the boat.
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Old 04-20-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

I think David is referring to the spider cracking in the gel coat. Paint will not cover that.

Brightside is nowhere near the quality and longevity of Awl Grip.

Imron is a comparable paint to Awl Grip, as is Alex Seal, and the most user friendly 2 part is Interlux Perfection. It can be roll and tipped, Awl Grip is best sprayed I believe.
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Old 04-20-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

We had Alexseal professionally applied over the winter, in early 2011. We're very happy with it so far. We were sold on it as a more advanced version of Alwgrip. It was invented by the same guy that invented Awlgrip, after his non-compete ran out from selling.

It claims to be a repairable linear polyester paint. LP paints are much harder to damage, but if you do, they are very difficult to repair. I'm hoping not to have to test that claim.

Our shop also said that is is substantially easier to apply and, even with a professional, you get that much better outcome. If your friend is going with an LP, I would suggest Alexseal. However, if I was painting my own boat, I would use an Acrylic. If I messed up a section, they can be buffed or sanded and redone.

I'm not a painting pro, but would think a fairing compound would be appropriate to fill the gel coat cracks. Painting over cracked gel coat is not uncommon, so there's clearly a method other than grinding it off. The fact that your friend did grind some off, is probably their biggest problem now. That section will need to be rebuilt and faired into the surrounding area again.

Tell your friend to get a good long board, lots of sandpaper, and start doing pushups to get ready to use it. The whole boat should be faired.
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Old 04-20-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

The spider cracks all need to be ground out with a dremil or similar tool, filled and faired. if not the cracks will reapear after paint
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Old 04-20-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

Having used BOTH i will take Awlgrip over Perfection for roll & tip

Perfection is a bit cheaper and marketed towards the consumer BUT having used both tech support groups Awlgrip gave me better answers

The prep is the same IF you want a good job the underlying issues need to be prepared correctly

The BIG issue is you need two coats minimum and if you were spraying it is done in one session VS roll & tip which is done in coats X time apart WITHOUT passing about 24 hours

It is a big issue as you need to pull the tape pretty fast or the paint will be LIFTED and re-tape for the second coat which is a problem as the paint is NOT dry enough to touch the deck VS a topside job were no contact is needed for a second taping and coat

Another issue is the weather is ALL wrong right now and the dew will destroy the paint and despite what they say 65 degrees is borderline as at 70 degrees the paint flows MUCH better

On Seafevers topside job i had to wait 48 hours and then wet-sand the area were the green strip went as this was the minimum amount of time in which the green stripes taping would not damage the Tan main color
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Old 04-20-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

David, the only way to get rid of spider cracks is to route out each one, then fill with an epoxy or similar material. Kinda like trying to replace tile grout but each line has to be followed by hand. This can be a nasty labor-intensive job, unless your friend appreciates the zen flow-time of working with a Dremel all day for a week.

Personally I'd suggest using one of the "rubbery" antiskid paints, which will help fill and bridge any cracks, and being somewhat elastic allow them to move under it without telgraphing them all through again.

If he's going to try repairing all the cracks, ask the folks who make the new "paint" what they recommend, and what they will or won't warranty over.
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Old 04-21-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
Having used BOTH i will take Awlgrip over Perfection for roll & tip

Perfection is a bit cheaper and marketed towards the consumer BUT having used both tech support groups Awlgrip gave me better answers

The prep is the same IF you want a good job the underlying issues need to be prepared correctly

The BIG issue is you need two coats minimum and if you were spraying it is done in one session VS roll & tip which is done in coats X time apart WITHOUT passing about 24 hours

It is a big issue as you need to pull the tape pretty fast or the paint will be LIFTED and re-tape for the second coat which is a problem as the paint is NOT dry enough to touch the deck VS a topside job were no contact is needed for a second taping and coat

Another issue is the weather is ALL wrong right now and the dew will destroy the paint and despite what they say 65 degrees is borderline as at 70 degrees the paint flows MUCH better

On Seafevers topside job i had to wait 48 hours and then wet-sand the area were the green strip went as this was the minimum amount of time in which the green stripes taping would not damage the Tan main color
Another reason that these paints are normally sprayed by pros is the expensive protective gear needed to do it safely. The norm would be nothing less than an air fed mask with a full suit. You need to be very careful with this stuff. The best approach to be safe is to stick with roll and tip.

Here's the MSDS for Awlgrip :
http://www.awlgrip.com/support-and-a.../G_H_Lines.pdf
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Old 04-23-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

Since the cracks are every inch in every direction routing them out is not an option. Their has to be another way.
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Old 04-23-2012
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Re: Preparing for All-Grip

david, in a way that's like saying "I have an old wood boat with expensive dry rot but really don't want to pull every fastener and replace every board."

Well....

If you don't open up the cracks, you don't get a good bond with the filler. If you just fill with epoxy AND you tint it perfectly AND you flush polish it with the surface perfectly and then you reapply new gelcoat or deck paint over it...

You see why I suggest getting a rubbery white antiskid and just painting over the whole thing?

The alternative of using a scraper, matching epoxy, matching the finish, working inch by inch over each one...How long did it take to paint the ceiling on the Sistine Chapel anyhow?
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