C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-30-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Liberty Landing
Posts: 665
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
peterchech is on a distinguished road
C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

My father is about to purchase a 1982 C&C 32. The boat is in excellent condition, with the exception of this crack:

OK, the photo will follow, having trouble posting it right now. But it's pretty simple, it's a crack in the bottom paint from the leading edge of the keel back about 1 foot along the keel stub/keel joint (where the glass meets the lead). As far as I can see, it is about 1/16 inch wide at the most, possibly even less. I can't tell how deep the crack goes without chipping many layers of old bottom paint.

I imagine that checking the keel bolt tension is in order, then maybe some caulking (4200 or life caulk?) at the crack, would fix this, it's not really a big fix. Am I right about that?

It's gonna go in the water in a few days, I was thinking to simply wait until the winter haulout to address this issue. The keel has been on there for 30 years, I can't imagine it will fall off now. I checked all the keel bolts inside, they are clean and rust free. Am I seriously risking a major structural failure by waiting for the end of the season to check the tension in the bolts and re-caulk?

I read Don Casey's article on keel re-bedding, and it seems a re-bed might eventually be in order, but being a lead keel this may be extremely difficult. He seems to say that, if it's really tough and there are no actual structural failures, it is often best to just leave well enough alone. Thoughts?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 04-30-2012
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,390
Thanks: 63
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

Not uncommon, and probably mostly cosmetic, but the precautions you mention make sense.

Your surveyor's comments on the item should be your guide.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 04-30-2012
eherlihy's Avatar
Will work to sail. :-)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,158
Thanks: 71
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

For some insight of how bad it could be, look here.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105 Certified - Also certified in Recreational Marine Electrical Systems
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 04-30-2012
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,316
Thanks: 55
Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

For some more insight of how bad it could be, look here. This is an example of what was holding my 10,200 Lb. iron keel on. There were five pieces of channel and 10 bolts - all that bad. For some unaccountable reason it wasn't even leaking.
Attached Thumbnails
C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?-58.-actually-held-keel-.jpg  
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken, opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 04-30-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Liberty Landing
Posts: 665
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
peterchech is on a distinguished road
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

You guys are scaring me...

I have to say though, the keel bolts are almost completely corrosion free in the sump, unlike in most of the examples of corroded keel bolts that I found online
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 04-30-2012
eherlihy's Avatar
Will work to sail. :-)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,158
Thanks: 71
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterchech View Post
You guys are scaring me...

I have to say though, the keel bolts are almost completely corrosion free in the sump, unlike in most of the examples of corroded keel bolts that I found online
Um...
Before dropping the keel;


Same bolt after dropping the keel;


I'm not trying to scare you. I just want you to know what you are potentially in for.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 04-30-2012
Tanley's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 237
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Tanley is on a distinguished road
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

Peter, we had a similar issue when we bought our '87 Cal a couple of years ago.

Herlihy's post/advice convinced me drop the keel this past off season and have it re-bed. Although the bolts ended up being fine, the peace of mind in knowing it's OK was more than worth the cost and effort. After 25+ years, it's a maintenance item that need's to be done regardless.

Walk around a yard when the boats are on the hard and you'll see all types of cracks at the keel to hull joint. It's normal, but shouldn't be taken for granted.
olson34 likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 04-30-2012
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,316
Thanks: 55
Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterchech View Post
You guys are scaring me...

I have to say though, the keel bolts are almost completely corrosion free in the sump, unlike in most of the examples of corroded keel bolts that I found online
As Aherlihy points out, it's the part going through the hull where the problem usually occurs, not the exposed area and nuts.

FYI though, the smile is commonplace - it's routinely called the C&C smile and the Catalina smile - seldom a serious problem.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken, opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 05-01-2012
Dog Ship's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dolphin Beach, B.C.
Posts: 524
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Dog Ship is on a distinguished road
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

I don't see any bonding wires on those bolts.
The keel bolts on my C&C 32 are attached to the boats bonding system and the studs and nuts and backing plates are still shiny and new in appearance.
I would guess that the studs in the picture were destroyed by electrolysis rather than corrosion.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 05-01-2012
msmith10's Avatar
Junior member, rest old
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 492
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
msmith10 is on a distinguished road
Re: C&C "smile", crack at the stub/keel joint... problem?

I agree with Sloopjonb. This is an almost universal and usually cosmetic problem with C&Cs as well as other brands.
You MAY have keel bolt corrosion also but I'd say the two issues are no more linked than the fact that you may have a cracked swage fitting on your rigging.

Loosen keel bolts, clean out the crack, caulk and retorque. Or just caulk it and sail for this season.
__________________
Mark Smith
1977 C&C 30 Mk 1 hailing from Port Clinton, Ohio
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Seacock" vs. "ballcock" or "ball valve?" SEMIJim Gear & Maintenance 18 09-02-2013 05:31 PM
C&C "smile" AirborneSF C & C 9 12-16-2011 08:13 PM
Keel "smile" JimHawkins Boat Buyers & Sellers Forum 3 12-17-2009 10:15 PM
"Catalina Smile" ... ??? backcreeksailor Gear & Maintenance 9 03-22-2009 11:15 AM
C270 Main Sail "stack Pack", Quick Cover", "lazy Bag" Install randy22556 Catalina 1 02-28-2007 11:53 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012