Lines aft - what''s best?

[raybies]

I have a 1985 Beneteau Idylle 34.5 which I use for harbour sailing and short coastal runs around Sydney. I haven''t altered the layout of lines led back to the cockpit in the two years that I have owned the boat but
am thinking about reorganising things now that I know the boat better, and as a result of other changes made. The following is how things are laid out at present, (working from port to starboard).

Port coachouse: genoa halyard ( furling genoa), spinnaker halyard, mainsheet (traveller is forward of the companionway).

Starboard coachouse: main halyard, lazy jacks, spinnaker topping lift.

At the mast I have; main topping lift, jiffy reef 1&2, outhaul and vang.

I''m thinking that the genoa halyard doesn''t need to come aft (because of the furler) and that the spinnaker topping lift is redundant (because of the assymetric). I would like to have the reefing lines back, but I think that will involve changing the reefing system to single line controls.

Before I start, I would appreciate hearing from others on what works best for them.

Thanks in advance, and a happy festive season to all.

Ray

[jbanta]

Sounds to me like the boat has a pretty good set up. I would agree you don''t need the jib haylard back your reefing (like you sail should cover that need. I would put in the single line reefing on the main once you have had it you won''t know how you lived without it. Am am of the KISS insitute. Yes do what you need to do to make the boat as simple to sail as you can BUT KISS. As simple a rig as you can get the job done is best....

[Jeff_H]

I would say that the only part of Jim''s post that I agree with is to keep it simple. (Sorry Jim)

If you have a jib on a furler then you need to keep the jib halyard run back to the cockpit. When a furler jambs or binds it can often be cleared by increasing or decreasing halyard tension. Also if you are anxious enough to want to be able to reef from the cockpit (a very good idea on a boat this size) then you would also want the jib halyard lead to the cockpit because the first line that you need to adjust to pervent being overpowered as the wind speed comes up is the jib halyard. With that properly tensioned you may not even need to reef. And at the end of the day, the halyard will need to be eased when you get ready to furl the sail so as to not damage the luff of the sail.

I also think that it is important to bring the reef lines, outhaul and vang back to the cockpit if you are sailing shorthanded. These are adjustments that are made quite frequently while under way.

I strongly disagree with Jim that single line reefing is simple or a good idea. Single line reefing requires a more complex system of blocks, higher frictional loads, more potential for chafe, and hauling in a lot more line in order to pull in a reef. Single line reefing does not permit the independent adjustment of luff and clew which is often important in heavier going. While single line reefing works reasonably well for very small boats but in my opinion are not really suitable for larger boats. While two line reefing does require an extra sheeve on the line organizer, and extra stoppers or cam cleats, it is really the simplier, more reliable and therefore argueably the better way to go.

Faced with your current deck layout, I would probably move the spinacker pole lift to the mast (or remove it all together and just have a messenger line for the next owner who like many of us do not consider a assymetrical chute suitable for single-handing.) It sounds like you need to move three more lines aft on each side and that usually is not all that big a deal requiring only a second stack on your line organizer and three more stoppers or cam cleats each side. (the outhaul, reef tack lines, lazy jacks and vang can be on cam cleats the others should be on stoppers).

That is how I would set the boat up if she were mine and I was sailing in your waters.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[thomasstone]

And I strongly disagree with you that single line reefing is not the best. Jim I strongly agree with you on this one. After spending two weeks aboard a boat with single line reefing usually reefing and shaking out reefs twice a day usually something I dread I began to look foward to it. -thomas

[Jeff_H]

Thomasstone, since you have found a good example of a single line reefing system that worked I am glad that you liked it. But in my case, having had to cut away a jambed single line reefing system and having to try to jury rig something that actually worked to replace a single line system that failed on a couple boats, I stand by my comments that single line systems are too slow, unreliable and friction prone for larger boats. I have never encountered one that was as quick, easy or reliable as a decent two line system.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[thomasstone]

Jeffh,That sounds like the arguments against roller furling when it first started coming out. - I too have many stories of cutting jamed lines ,etc. I am just saying that so far single line reefing has been the best reefing step up I have ever used. regards-thomas

[raybies]

Thanks to all who responded and despite the healthy differences of opinion on the merits of various reefing systems, it has got me thinking properly about the various issues.

I have started with making some good layout skeches and will aproach each system on a one by one basis - rather than make wholesale changes and not be sure of the gains. As a first step I rearranged my mainsheet, seemingly with less friction and no loss of purchase. The coachhouse mounted traveller ((my big hate) is next.

Anyway, I''ve already decided to leave some things as they, following the KISS principle. I haven''t decided on the reef system yet!

Again, thanks. A happy and healthy 2004 to all.

Ray