Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 05-11-2012
rhumbunctious's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rhumbunctious is on a distinguished road
Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%?

This is a question for those with direct, hands-on experience with twistle rigs. If you don't know what one is, or haven't used one, please just listen and don't post. Thanks.

I'm planning on having a twistle rig made, and am pondering whether I should go for 100% or 130% per side.

I'm also planning to use 4oz Dacron sailcloth, so that when spread out, it has reasonable light wind performance, but when folded double and used as a traditional jib, it has decent strength in higher winds.

Or should I go with 6-8 oz sailcloth and just deal with the extra weight?

Thanks.
__________________
If a man speaks at sea where there is no woman to hear, is he still wrong?
-
Cruising the Baltic in 'Merihiisi', a 1979 Westerly Berwick Ketch
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 05-11-2012
svHyLyte's Avatar
Old as Dirt!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,648
Thanks: 11
Thanked 101 Times in 96 Posts
Rep Power: 6
svHyLyte is on a distinguished road
Re: Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%?

Not knowing the size yacht you are sailing, it is somewhat difficult to make a suggestion. Note, however, that to work as this rig was intended--largely for self steering down-wind with a free helm, one needs a dihedral angle between the sails of something in the range of 20º-30º or so (i.e. the pole on each sail set at approximately 75º-80º off the bow). Depending upon the size yacht and how high-cut the clew, a 130 could make for an overlong pole which would be awkward at best and problematic in much of a seaway. Some friends of ours that I helped experiment with the rig found that they actually did better with two matching sails set free flying about 2 feet apart on either side of the bow in the traditional fashion (see Eric Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail" for a discussion. The "Twistle" was an attempt to combine the traditional twin headsail rig with roller furling. It can work but it requires a lot of gear (twin poles, twin topping lifts, twin fore-guys, twin after-guys, etc. which is a lot of guys for a short handed crew to manage and is costly to set up. As for using the rig with the sails laying against one another, unless you have a way to manage both sheets simultaneously (and assuming the sails are, in fact identical, which is unlikely) and tension each sail by the same amount, only one or the other sail will be carrying most of the load with the wind forward of the beam. Accordingly, two 4 oz sails would not equal a single 8 oz sail.

I will be interested in seeing/learning about the results of your experiment.

FWIW...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 05-11-2012
rhumbunctious's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rhumbunctious is on a distinguished road
Re: Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Not knowing the size yacht you are sailing, it is somewhat difficult to make a suggestion. Note, however, that to work as this rig was intended--largely for self steering down-wind with a free helm, one needs a dihedral angle between the sails of something in the range of 20º-30º or so (i.e. the pole on each sail set at approximately 75º-80º off the bow). Depending upon the size yacht and how high-cut the clew, a 130 could make for an overlong pole which would be awkward at best and problematic in much of a seaway.
Good point. Thanks. I've been using 100%, which has seemed about right. Was just wanting to be sure I didn't miss an obvious benefit when custom ordering the sails, by not making them a tad larger.

Quote:
Some friends of ours that I helped experiment with the rig found that they actually did better with two matching sails set free flying about 2 feet apart on either side of the bow in the traditional fashion (see Eric Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail" for a discussion. The "Twistle" was an attempt to combine the traditional twin headsail rig with roller furling. It can work but it requires a lot of gear (twin poles, twin topping lifts, twin fore-guys, twin after-guys, etc. which is a lot of guys for a short handed crew to manage and is costly to set up.
I sail single handed, and haven't found it such a chore, or to need quite so much rigging, leaving the poles to move fairly freely with just a few lines to keep things sufficiently well behaved (I attach my poles directly to the clews and have a halyard, downhaul and short line from the apex of the poles to the baby stay to keep it aft. But nothing else).

Maybe I'm doing it wrong... wouldn't be the first time ;-)

Quote:
As for using the rig with the sails laying against one another, unless you have a way to manage both sheets simultaneously (and assuming the sails are, in fact identical, which is unlikely) and tension each sail by the same amount, only one or the other sail will be carrying most of the load with the wind forward of the beam. Accordingly, two 4 oz sails would not equal a single 8 oz sail.
Good point. I've not used them yet like that, as the foresails I now use aren't exactly the same, but that's why I was thinking that if they are custom made to be exactly identical, it should be possible to use them doubled up as a single traditional foresail with reasonable success.

And I would expect that both sides would take roughly the same force, if they are cut exactly the same and joined at the clews by the sheets. But maybe not. At least that part of the design hasn't raised any comments or concerns from any of the lofts, and I was quite explicit about my plan to use the twin foresail doubled up a s a traditional foresail, so I'm going to conclude that there's no major sin being committed in doing so, or else I would have heard it from at least one of the lofts.

Quote:
I will be interested in seeing/learning about the results of your experiment.
As will I ;-)
__________________
If a man speaks at sea where there is no woman to hear, is he still wrong?
-
Cruising the Baltic in 'Merihiisi', a 1979 Westerly Berwick Ketch
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 05-11-2012
rhumbunctious's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rhumbunctious is on a distinguished road
Re: Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Not knowing the size yacht you are sailing, it is somewhat difficult to make a suggestion. ...
Oh, it's a 1979 Westerly Berwick ketch, 32.5'
__________________
If a man speaks at sea where there is no woman to hear, is he still wrong?
-
Cruising the Baltic in 'Merihiisi', a 1979 Westerly Berwick Ketch
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 05-12-2012
svHyLyte's Avatar
Old as Dirt!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,648
Thanks: 11
Thanked 101 Times in 96 Posts
Rep Power: 6
svHyLyte is on a distinguished road
Thumbs down Re: Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhumbunctious View Post
Oh, it's a 1979 Westerly Berwick ketch, 32.5'
Ah...a sturdy yacht. Ketch however. For more insight in the twin headsail rig with a ketch you might want to read through Eric Hiscock's "Around the World in Wanderer IV". In the UK you should be able to find it in a public library or, if not, the library at the Cruising Association HQ 1 Northey Street, Limehouse Basin, London E14 8BT, Telephone: 020 7537 2828, or Click on Cruising Association.
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 05-12-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: N. VA
Posts: 656
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
dacap06 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to dacap06
Re: Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%?

Rhumbunctious,

You sound like your mind is made up. Not so much for you but for others who peruse the thread in the coming years I'm going to offer an alternative.

I read Don Street's article on dual head sails on a single furler in Cruising World about a similar setup.

To me, his setup seems more flexible and useful than the twistle rig with a special purpose sail because it accommodates broader angles of relative wind without having to do extensive rerigging. It also looks cheaper because it uses a single furler with twin slots and and the #2 and #1 genoas, spinnaker rigging, plus a few more lines and blocks and a gybe preventer. A cruiser with a good sail inventory has most of that already.

I found his description on how to prevent heavy rolls and how to adjust the setup as the wind shifts to be particularly valuable.

Regards,

Tom
__________________
T. P. Donnelly
S/V Tranquility Base
1984 Islander 30 Bahama
Pasadena, MD
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
twistle rig kimberlite General Discussion (sailing related) 3 06-15-2014 07:52 AM
Twistle TXS-ALAMO Gear & Maintenance 17 07-06-2010 10:24 AM
twistle yard rig kimberlite General Discussion (sailing related) 0 12-30-2002 05:04 PM
Twistle Rig kimberlite General Discussion (sailing related) 1 12-09-2002 09:17 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:20 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.