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-   -   Wire to Rope Halyards (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/87644-wire-rope-halyards.html)

casey1999 05-21-2012 02:54 PM

Wire to Rope Halyards
 
All my Halyards are wire to rope. The wire can be hard on the mast sheeves and also cut through the mast through bolts at the spreaders and shroud tangs. Is it best to replace these with all rope? What is the benefit of the wire to rope halyard?
Regards

puddinlegs 05-21-2012 02:57 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
There's no advantage in this day and age to anything wire for running rigging. Modern rope/line/cordage is ridiculously strong and is very low stretch.

tommays 05-21-2012 02:59 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
It is old school for sure BUT

Mine still work fine and i am NOT spending the money to change the sheves

travlineasy 05-21-2012 02:59 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
The wire also takes neat slices out of your hands as well when the wire gets a bit frayed. I got rid of one, the other will be gone in a few weeks. I cannot see any advantage to having them. Also, I didn't have to change the sheaves for the rope halyards--the old ones were just fine.

Gary :cool:

casey1999 05-21-2012 03:09 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
I think I could keep my sheaves after going with all rope. Thing that scares me about the wire is the potential of having it cut through my main shroud tang bolts. If that were to happen, I would loose the mast. Talked to a local rigger who recommends I check the mast bolts. The rigger has seen mast come down when the wire haylard cuts the bolt. Plan to take mast down and replacing the bolts.

I understand these mast through bolts should have a compression sleave (so to not compress the mast). Where would these compression sleeve be obtained? Never see them sold.

msmith10 05-21-2012 03:23 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by casey1999 (Post 873699)

I understand these mast through bolts should have a compression sleave (so to not compress the mast). Where would these compression sleeve be obtained? Never see them sold.

They don't make them, per se. It's just a length of tubing, preferably heavy-wall stainless, that the bolts go through on the inside of the mast, cut to the proper length, so that the mast walls don't compress when the nuts are tightened down.
The big question is how are you gonna get them on the bolts? I guess you could send a feeder line thru the bolt hole, exit the bottom of the mast, pull the sleeve back up to the hole then carefully feed the bolt through the sleeve. Ain't gonna be easy. I guess if you can remove the masthead and get to them that way, it would simplify the matter.

svHyLyte 05-21-2012 04:06 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by casey1999 (Post 873692)
All my Halyards are wire to rope. The wire can be hard on the mast sheeves and also cut through the mast through bolts at the spreaders and shroud tangs. Is it best to replace these with all rope? What is the benefit of the wire to rope halyard?
Regards

Wire to rope halyards were an inexpensive way of providing yachts with non-stretch halyards from the late 60's through the early '80s without the need for reel winches which are a "reel" pain in the neck--or wrist if one got away from you. The length of the "rope" tail was sized to have rope around the halyard winches with only a short length between the winch and the wire. Of course, this necessitated having sheaves that were designed with a hardened grove in the center to accept the wire without chafe and yet accommodate the rope itself as was necessary because the wire could not exceed the length from the masthead to slightly above the position of the halyard winch. So long as the sheave is not chewed up--which usually only happens when the wire is badly worn or the lead at the masthead is not fair, the sheaves will usually accept a rope only halyard. On the other hand, unless there is some reason to believe that someone has lead a halyard unfairly through the mast--and chafe in the wire to confirm it--there is no reason to think that the wire is "sawing" on anything in the mast save perhaps the exit slot (if the halyards are internal). In any case, if the sheaves are okay, you can switch over to Sta-Set or Sta-Set X or its equivalent, for a reliable non-/limited stretch halyard for everyday and club racing use; or, Spectra or its equivalent (e.g. T-900) for more serious racing although that is not inexpensive.

FWIW...

casey1999 05-21-2012 04:12 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by svHyLyte (Post 873731)
Wire to rope halyards were an inexpensive way of providing yachts with non-stretch halyards from the late 60's through the early '80s without the need for reel winches which are a "reel" pain in the neck--or wrist if one got away from you. The length of the "rope" tail was sized to have rope around the halyard winches with only a short length between the winch and the wire. Of course, this necessitated having sheaves that were designed with a hardened grove in the center to accept the wire without chafe and yet accommodate the rope itself as was necessary because the wire could not exceed the length from the masthead to slightly above the position of the halyard winch. So long as the sheave is not chewed up--which usually only happens when the wire is badly worn or the lead at the masthead is not fair, the sheaves will usually accept a rope only halyard. On the other hand, unless there is some reason to believe that someone has lead a halyard unfairly through the mast--and chafe in the wire to confirm it--there is no reason to think that the wire is "sawing" on anything in the mast save perhaps the exit slot (if the halyards are internal). In any case, if the sheaves are okay, you can switch over to Sta-Set or Sta-Set X or its equivalent, for a reliable non-/limited stretch halyard for everyday and club racing use; or, Spectra or its equivalent (e.g. T-900) for more serious racing although that is not inexpensive.

FWIW...

Sounds like good advice. My wire to rope halyards appear in excellant condition (they are internal) with no wire chafe or fish hooks.
Regards

tommays 05-21-2012 04:13 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
On the Cal 29 they are all external and don't touch or rub or cut anything :)

On the Cal 29 to make the external thing work the sheaves are GIANT with a price to match :)

On my J24 it started out life with wire/rope in 1981 and at some point as the sheaves needed no mod it went to all high tech rope

Other than the fishhooks on the wire its about the same on the J24 as the loads are low

There is a bunch of stuff on the market with jackets now that are stupid slippery and do NOT work so it can be a costly experiment if you do NOT play with a sample of the cordage your going to use

As the boats get bigger between the lenth of line and the high loads there is a much bigger payback

CapnBilll 05-21-2012 05:32 PM

Re: Wire to Rope Halyards
 
My Aquarius 23 came with damaged wire to rope halyards. I replaced the jib with all rope, but jib has a wire sewn into jib.

I went with wire to rope main halyard because mast top sheaves were a little narrow, and I worried line could jam.

I say if the line fits smoothly use it, otherwise stick to original.


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