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post #11 of 28 Old 07-18-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

I wonder, do many people wear the harness only while sailing?
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post #12 of 28 Old 07-18-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

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Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
The spinlock vest/harness has a good track record and has an integrated spray hood. Expensive, and not USCG approved (but is just about everywhere else)... don't forget a crotch strap. In the end, keep it simple with as little stuff as you can manage to get tangled up in IMHO opinion of course.
Have the older version of the spinlock deckware harness/pfd and love it. New version even better, since you no longer have to pull it on like a sweater.

They are built with the wearer in mind, no corners, rounded neck portion, integrated leg loops, spray shield, emergancy cutter, no hard points (large metal D rings can smack you in the face if you do fall overboard). Easy to adjust size to cater for foulies on/off.

While not USCG approved (wait list and cost to do so is large) they are approved most everywhere else in the world. Wore mine 10 days straight except when tucked in below deck, never felt uncomfortable.

Only set up I will ever wear.
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post #13 of 28 Old 07-18-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I once read an article in British magazine about testing safety harnesses. The ran a boat at 4 knots, and had a guy in a safety harness jump overboard. With the tether attached at the centre of his chest , his motion thru the water built up such a huge bow wave, that he couldn't get his head above it, and it threatened to drown him. A few years ago, a guy was drowned that way, by his "Safety Harness" in the Farallones race. Before they could get the boat stopped, he was dead. I'm surprised no one filed a lawsuit against the company which made the "Safety Harness"
Then they tried attaching the tether to the back. Worked well, he was comfortable and could breath, but there was no way he could reach the tether to pull himself in.
Then they attached it to the top of the shoulder. Much better! He could breath, and he could pull himself in.
Another advantage of the top of the shoulder attachement point is it doesn't dig into you when you wear it in your bunk. I use a lashing in front, instead of metal parts , for the same reason.I build mine that way, and wouldn't consider doing it any other way.
If you can find a link to that article, I would love to see it. I always suspected as much.

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post #14 of 28 Old 07-19-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

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Originally Posted by Robes View Post
I'm not sure what to go with on the harness end but my dual length tether will be designed, lengthwise, not to allow me to fall overboard (not long enough). I will not wear a tether that would allow me to fully fall overboard but keep me on the boat, my fear is being trapped by rigging or cabin during a knockdown or capsize. For these reasons I think a load-releasing quik-release maybe a good choice for me such as the Wichard, seen here:
Wichard Large Bail Snap Shackle & Swivel Eye, 3-1/8" Lenth - 2373

I have to consider myself dead if I'm single handing & fall off the deck. Only location at the time may be my life saver. I just don't see myself wielding a blade next to my inflatable in many weather/daylight/night situations, let alone being dragged by the boat. Yet, sh#t happens & I would hope to have one on me, if I could manipulate it would be another thing. I'm thinking a well maintained "lubed" Wichard with lanyard & a careful eye to be sure it is correctly closed before the adventure out could be what I'm leaning toward-

Robes
There is a healthy debate over whether a tether should have a quick release of any kind and you've touched on some of the pros. I do know sailors who are (or were) on that side of the fence, until they looked down one day and saw it had come undone without their knowing it. Even the Wichard that you've referenced, particularly well lubricated, can easily be opened without a load on it, by catching the release on something while you're being knocked around. That's the debate.

If you don't have a quick release, a blade is not the way to go, for reasons you've noted. You need one of these. There is a razor sharp edge under that wax that you just pull against the tether, or the liferaft painter for that matter. It sits at chest level on my pfd.

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post #15 of 28 Old 07-19-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterchech View Post
I wonder, do many people wear the harness only while sailing?
It's WAY cooler when it's really hot. And for a single-hander in many circumstances, if the tether fails, you're dead anyway. But this aproach does require self disipline.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

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post #16 of 28 Old 07-19-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robes View Post
I'm not sure what to go with on the harness end but my dual length tether will be designed, lengthwise, not to allow me to fall overboard (not long enough). I will not wear a tether that would allow me to fully fall overboard but keep me on the boat, my fear is being trapped by rigging or cabin during a knockdown or capsize. For these reasons I think a load-releasing quik-release maybe a good choice for me such as the Wichard, seen here:
Wichard Large Bail Snap Shackle & Swivel Eye, 3-1/8" Lenth - 2373

I have to consider myself dead if I'm single handing & fall off the deck. Only location at the time may be my life saver. I just don't see myself wielding a blade next to my inflatable in many weather/daylight/night situations, let alone being dragged by the boat. Yet, sh#t happens & I would hope to have one on me, if I could manipulate it would be another thing. I'm thinking a well maintained "lubed" Wichard with lanyard & a careful eye to be sure it is correctly closed before the adventure out could be what I'm leaning toward-

Robes
,If the boat were rail down, and you went under the lifelines, the tether would have to be less than 12 inches long to keep your head above water.
Think you could work with a 12 inch tether?

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #17 of 28 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

"the tether would have to be less than 12 inches long to keep your head above water."
You must have some odd jacklines, Brent. You either run a line miships or you run two and you clip on high side. So for a tether to allow your head in the water, either your boat is only two feet wide, or you've clipped into the low side jackline. A potentially fatal mistake that's got nothing to do with the length of tethers.
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post #18 of 28 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

I run a single jackline down the center of the boat.

I have even experimented with wrapping it once around the mast to reduce stretch. If I have to go beyond the mast I clip on forward with my second attachment point before releasing my first and repeat going back. My boat has a 10 ft beam and I use a 5 ft tether going to the mast.

My attachment point on is a cleat at the center of the bow, approx. 24 inches from the rail at it's closest point and I use a 3 ft tether working forward at the bow.

Everyone says the point is to stay on the boat, yet, I regularly see boats set up with two sets of jacklines running down the outboard decks. OK of one is working with a crew. If single handing, it seems to me that it leads to a false sense of security and invitation to go over and get dragged.
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post #19 of 28 Old 07-20-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobGallagher View Post
I run a single jackline down the center of the boat.

I have even experimented with wrapping it once around the mast to reduce stretch. If I have to go beyond the mast I clip on forward with my second attachment point before releasing my first and repeat going back. My boat has a 10 ft beam and I use a 5 ft tether going to the mast.

My attachment point on is a cleat at the center of the bow, approx. 24 inches from the rail at it's closest point and I use a 3 ft tether working forward at the bow.

Everyone says the point is to stay on the boat, yet, I regularly see boats set up with two sets of jacklines running down the outboard decks. OK of one is working with a crew. If single handing, it seems to me that it leads to a false sense of security and invitation to go over and get dragged.

Thanks for your reply. As me, I see running the Jackline midline is the only real sensible way to do it, it keeps you on the boat by using your choice of tether length (incorporated into one tether, see original post links), double clipping to the line before removing/changing a tether length etc. It takes foresight, planning and multiple length tethers(all tethers/jacklines "customized" for an individual boat) but, the point is, no need to have a tether long enough that you could be washed overboard. I totally agree with your methods.

The original question was which clip to use on the harness side, yet some replies pointed toward running Jacklines, and as I see it, the wrong way (I was hoping to avoid going here). It (one Jackline) should run mid line for use with a tether, and may use alternate fixed(only if using a Screamer) points eg. near the cockpit. Point here, you may be double clipped in while moving from one line to another attachment site or when changing tether length. I also have the Screamer attached to the main section of tether especially important if clipped into a short length of Jackline or anchor point(again see orig post for screamer use links). Although, it is difficult to talk about either tether related or Jakelines and exclude one or the other. Jacklines should be a separate thread, to keep things simple & to the point.

I have also read of a very experienced sailor who has never met or heard of anyone who had a quick-release undo itself, with the exception of 1 person he knew by his own fault didn't latch it appropriately.

So, some say the major fault with quick-release is human error & others say it can come undone after you have correctly clipped in, eg by catching the lanyard on something. Possibly the correction for "catching" the lanyard is to remove any end handle which is attached to its bitter end. Yet, that could pose problems of finding it during crucial seconds. Again, some say, not catching; but certain maneuvers/pressures/unknowns cause unexplained unanticipated quick release openings.

Now, you either use eg. the Kong Tango(see original post link) or a quick release. The Kong Tango will not open, the quick release could possibly open. If you want to guarantee staying on the deck(varies depending on your Jackline system) you use the Kong Tango with the Spinlock S-Cutter, but this method requires manipulating a cutter in unforseen circumstances but offers you a second chance. There is no second chance if the quick release accidently opened. If your knocked out, none of the discussion applies. I'm now thinking the best choice is a "NON- quick release" for the conscious. No matter, I guess it will always be a crap shoot and boils down to an individuals personal preference influenced by his research into the questions. This post hopefully, will help one to make their decision-

Personally, if single handling, I have to stay on board. I think I would rather make the decision to cut free rather then be accidently let loose no matter how great the odds are against it, I know my luck. If I were sailing the BVI with friends I may favor the quick release, but I wouldn't be harnessed in either in all likelihood. Would I change from one clip to another depending on circumstances, highly unlikely. This thread has helped me make my decision, that being clips similar to the Kong Tango's autolocking snaplinks.

Last edited by Robes; 07-20-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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post #20 of 28 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: Opinions on PDF, Harness, & Tethers?

Kinda hard to get a single centreline jackline to work on anything but a flush decker with no mast in the way, nor mainsheet, dingy, etc( nor anything else)

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-21-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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