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  #101  
Old 07-16-2014
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

Sorry to bump an old post but I don't know why so many people get fooled by the paint vs gelcoat debate and choose paint. There are basically two ways, the cheap patch or the permanant fix. If your base gelcoat isn't cracking badly or flaking off of the hull and you don't want to change the color then you are in luck sir. Watch a video on gelcoat repair and a few hours later your hull can look as good as new.

Otherwise if you simply want to change the color, painting may be the way to go.

However, If your OEM gelcoat is cracking, flaking, or otherwise separating from the layer below it it will have to be sanded off before you do anything. Otherwise, no matter what finish you use, how liberally or perfectly you apply it, or what the finish looks like or how soon, you'll have many repairs in the future due to the original gelcoat flaking off of the hull and maiming your final finish. People who paint don't see evidence of this (or admit it as quickly) because they'll repaint many times before enough flaking has happened to cause heartache. IE they're constantly painting over the problem.

In terms of long term maintenance there is no better solution than gelcoat. A good gelcoat can be sanded and buffed to a brand new finish many, MANY times before any significant maintenance needs to be done. Where is anyone getting that chips and cracks are hard to repair? It's a four step process, clean the crack or chip with sanding, color match the gelcoat, catalyze and apply, then sand and buff to the hull. Guess what it is with paint... The same process unless you want to risk your paint flaking due to an improperly prepared surface.

Many modern boat manufacturers that use paint and gelcoat do this because colored gelcoat is porous and is essentially the cause of the infamous osmosis bubbles on your hull bottom. So they gelcoat clear and paint over that on bottoms because it makes a better hull. This has nothing to do with topsides or finish.

Basically, this translates to, if you have a 30+ year old boat with lots of OEM gelcoat cracking and so on, you're in for a big job. It doesn't matter if you paint or gelcoat at that point because you'll be sanding pretty much the entire hull before you put a drop of new finish on that boat. For big projects like this I highly recommend you rent a pressure washer, buy a blasting attachment (@$70), and soda blast the hull. You'll thank yourself when you're done with the initial sanding and cleaning in an hour rather than it taking days. That said, I HIGHLY recommend removing the fittings in your way. The end job will look 100 times better guaranteed. Doesn't matter if you paint or gelcoat, spray or roll. Taking the fittings off will absolutely make the entire process sooooooo much easier once you start to paint. The only time I'd ever skip that time consuming step is if my work was just to patch. If I'm doing a color change or having to do extensive work on the original finish just take the time to remove all the fittings and really anything in your way. Don't do a thing until that's done. You will almost certainly run across other damage you'll need to fix along the way and you'll save yourself years of work later.

All kinds of issues like de-lamination and soft hulls, rotting core, stripped out or poorly bedded fittings will rear their head while you're out of the water and ready to work on them and not a year later when you want to be sailing and not hauling out for yet another "quick" fix.

If I haven't made a good case yet... ANY TIME YOU DO MAJOR FINISH WORK TAKE THE TIME TO REMOVE ANY FITTING IN YOUR WAY. If you do this then I promise, though it may result in more work now, you will get a good 10 years out of your boat before you will have to do ANY major repair because you will have addressed all of the most common minor issues that lead to major issues. Done right the finish, the hull integrity, and the boat will easily outlive you.

Said one more time in another way, if you paint an older boat with gelcoat problems without stripping and pulling fittings you're begging for a seasonal repairjob. If you paint period you'll be painting again in 5-10 years.. (everything) If you take the time to do a good gelcoat and remove all the fittings and once finished you buff and wax once or twice a season, you can will the boat to your grandchildren and never have to do another major repair or refinish for the rest of your life.

I honestly can't think of a single reason I'd paint other than if I just hated the color of the boat and the gelcoat was still in good condition.
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  #102  
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

Also a note on sanding a gelcoat.

Duratec makes a high-gloss additive to gelcoat that will help you get less orange peel in a spray. Not a bad product if you follow the directions. (most products are like that).

After you apply new gelcoat you will have to sand down the orange peel, this is labor intensive. But it is easily done by hand on a small (25-22') boat in an afternoon. Be sure to use a solid, flat, sanding block.

As for sanding and buffing (relatively undamaged) older gelcoats. Start at 600 grit wet by hand on really badly oxidized gelcoats and work your way to 2000. Then polish, finish, and buff. You won't believe the difference. Do all of this by hand, so many people think machines will make it easy when many times they sand too long and drag huge scratches through the gelcoat forcing them to go back and keep sanding. The results are so much better when you take the time to do it by hand. You don't have to apply tons of pressure just sand.
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Old 07-16-2014
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

"Sorry to bump an old post but I don't know why so many people get fooled by the paint vs gelcoat debate"
Probably because it has been only recently that gelcoat materials which can cure in the presence of air, have become available or semi-well-known.

Traditional gelcoats, which are still the only gelcoats most people know about, can't just be sprayed on. So, more complications, and no tradition of being used for repaints.
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

If memory serves me, the first gelcoat sprayed in the boat mold will only cure in an anarobic state when the fiberglass is layed in. I've seen directions to create this environment for repairs later on the boat and it involves covering the gelcoat and removing the air. Just my two cents. Thanks
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Old 07-16-2014
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

there are a couple of gelcoat additives - besides wax- that you can add to the gelcoat before spraying so that you don't have to cover the gelcoat for it to cure- one is Duratec Hi-gloss additive - been using it on my boat repairs and it works great!
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

Hmmmm?
A two-part, (poly?)urethane, catalized paint : or a two-part polyurethane catalized resin job....
Other than the base resins and colorants....what's the diff?
Thickness?
bond?
flexability?
Anecdotal evidence suggests that I'd be fine with spraying gel. A dock mate sprayed a rebuilt deck and center console. for a buddy's boat. A bit of orange-peel in the corners and such; but nothing. horrible. The CCcame out better,as it was already GC'd and smooth. just needed a touch-up.twoyears out and it's still holding..so.....


That come. back to the "epoxy-over-polyester', never the reverse, question ANd what about vinyl-ester as a finish? Anyone ever spray that?
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  #107  
Old 07-16-2014
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
That comes back to the "epoxy-over-polyester', never the reverse, question ANd what about vinyl-ester as a finish? Anyone ever spray that?
Why? ... when the reason for the use of vinyl-ester is to greatly retard 'water permeation' into the matting and roving ... not needed on topsides, etc. as you really dont need need a barrier to water permeation above the waterline, unless you happen to have a submarine. ;-)
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  #108  
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

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Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
How much do you think it costs to redo do the entire gel coat on a 26 foot sailboat?
ABOUT 25% the cost of painting and there is a lot of sanding either way.
With the gel coat wipe to remove wax and just sand the old for tooth (2 quick, dry 80 grit passes).
Then lay on 3 coats 1 1/2 hrs apart (temp variance), last coat with wax added or Dura-tech hi- gloss additive.
I will post photos of my P30 after its done, the weather has not been cooperating at all here in NJ.
I think Awlgrip requires more prep,more expensive products,is not repairable, paint once always paint. Just my humble opinion I may be wrong, just ask my wife.
Walt
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

RichH;
was two diff questions.
sorry if confused.
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Old 07-16-2014
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Re: Why paint instead of gelcoat?

Here's another thought: One-part poly like Brightside.

I have a dark blue hull that had faded and chipped Awlgrip. I spent parts of three days in the yard prepping and painting with flag blue Brightside. That was two years ago.

Most of the hull still looks like the day it was painted, even though it is in the South Florida sun. I had a few minor scratches. No problem. They were fixed in an hour, unlike Awlgrip, which is difficult to patch properly.

Does it pass the test? I've had two yacht brokers offer unsolicited to list the boat for me in the last six months, at a time when other people are desperate to sell theirs. So I think it looks OK.

This is an old CCA boat with a full keel, one where you regularly come close to burying the rail. That has had no effect on the paint.

Sure, I might have to repaint in a couple of years. No big deal.

The important thing to remember is these are boats, not living room furniture. What's important is how they sail, not whether you can see your reflection in the topsides.

If you're getting the most out of your boat, it's not going to look like a museum piece.
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