rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 21 Old 08-04-2012
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

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Originally Posted by macswift View Post
Just one more thing to think about...
Are the sheaves of large enough diameter for the hi-tec line?
This stuff doesn't like to be bent through a tight radius.
Might be worth having a word with the manufacturer to find out what the minimum sheeve diameter is for the size of rope you're using.
Mac,

Dyneema/spectra has the same bending radius as polyester, 8:1. But this is for best performance, most sheaves even with high tech lines are generally undersized. One of the advantages of high tech stuff is that because you can use smaller line for the same load, you get closer to the ideal.

The only line I know that absolutely must have the recommended bend is Dynex Duc, which is not generally used for standing rigging. It is so stiff it really does need the recommended radius, which is why Colligio makes special terminators for it. Otherwise strait replacement is generally considered ok.

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post #12 of 21 Old 08-05-2012
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

I first sailed across the Pacific with rope halyards. The kept stretching and chafing thru, so I replaced them with wire, with a rope tail, in New Zealand in 74, and have had no problem with them since. I would never consider going back to all rope halyards.
A friend, who used stainless 7x19 wire, had to replace them very three years, because of broken strands. He only sailed weekends, and a three week summer holiday.I cruise full time, year round, and my current 1/4 inch 7x19 galvanized wire halyard will be ten years old by next spring. Despite having crossed the Pacific, it has no broken strands or meat hooks anywhere. Stick to galvanized . 1/4 inch is overkill, but far less likely to jump a sheave, than 3/16th. I tie the rope tail on thru a hard eye in the wire, no rope to wire splice needed. .

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post #13 of 21 Old 08-05-2012
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I first sailed across the Pacific with rope halyards. The kept stretching and chafing thru, so I replaced them with wire, with a rope tail, in New Zealand in 74, and have had no problem with them since. I would never consider going back to all rope halyards.
A friend, who used stainless 7x19 wire, had to replace them very three years, because of broken strands. He only sailed weekends, and a three week summer holiday.I cruise full time, year round, and my current 1/4 inch 7x19 galvanized wire halyard will be ten years old by next spring. Despite having crossed the Pacific, it has no broken strands or meat hooks anywhere. Stick to galvanized . 1/4 inch is overkill, but far less likely to jump a sheave, than 3/16th. I tie the rope tail on thru a hard eye in the wire, no rope to wire splice needed. .
Brent,
Don't you even consider the possibility that there has been the odd advance in line technology since 1974 ?
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post #14 of 21 Old 08-05-2012
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

There is no question about replacing with all rope. Just do it using the same diameter as what you now have. The new line will certainly be stronger than what's there and will fit your hardware. Your masthead sheaves will most probably accommodate the line without modification but check it out as others have noted. In our case on both our Sabres, the sheaves were in good condition. If aluminum, they don't usually fail unless badly neglected or something is eating them (like countless meathooks)

Unless you are racing, I'd recommend VPC or Samson XLS. I would not use StaSet-X only because it's a difficult line to splice.

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post #15 of 21 Old 08-05-2012
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I have a lathe and can clean up the sheaves and put a rounded groove instead of a notch in any metal sheave and even the resin sheaves.

Let me know if someone wants to have this done.

I run stayset x for my Genoa halyard in un modified sheaves. I have the portion that goes over the top wrapped in electrical tape to ease the Uv damage since it is a roller furled.
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-26-2013
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

I replaced the sheaves (and just about everything else) on my 30 yr old spar. to make the change from wire/rope to spectra. The sheaves needed to be a larger diameter but I got away with the same width.
At the bottom end we took out the old exit sheave boxes, welded aluminium flare tapers plates over the old sheave box holes so the halyards could then go straight to turning blocks at the foot of the mast.

I'll post before and after pics once I work out how to do it.
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-27-2013
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

WHILE i have plenty of T900 on the race boat it is more of a low stretch line with NO creep

I just plain flat out disagree the wire rope combo works just fine on a boat like the Cal 29 with Dacron sails and it takes a decade to get any fishhooks

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Last edited by tommays; 02-27-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-27-2013
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

I've found that the newer lines have cores that just don't feel good to the hand and aren't "grippy" enough, same deal on winches, it slips more.

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post #19 of 21 Old 02-27-2013
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Brent,
Don't you even consider the possibility that there has been the odd advance in line technology since 1974 ?
My rope halyards chafed thru, forcing me to go aloft singlehanded in mid Pacific. That doesn't happen with galv wire. I don't think any advancement in rope technology has made it more chafe resistant than wire.
Again, I have seen absolutely no reason to change, and go back to the risk of rope halyards.

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post #20 of 21 Old 02-28-2013
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Re: rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

BS - your chafe issue needs to be fixed. You chose to ignore this problem and bandaide it with wire rope. If it works for you, great. But you still have a chafe problem at the masthead. If you believe it was from the rope stretching, then upgrade to low stretch line. That's exactly what we're talking about here.

chucklesR - I think most people have this problem. However, that is the core of the line that's not meant to be cleated, whiched, or put in a clutch. Would you strip sta-set x and complain about the parallel core construction?

Everyone, the core of these hightech lines are not meant to be cleated. Not in a cam cleat, clam, clutch, winched or even put on a horn cleat. The line is slippery and doesn't hold knots well or at all. They are meant to be used with a cover where they are cleated or winched.

Edit: the 8:1 is important if you're pushing the breaking strength of the line. A good splice will weaken the line less than 10%. Safety factor should be around 2:1 or more. A tight radius, like a luggage tag through the shackle might weaken the line by 50%, but who cares? Not too many boats getting close to the breaking strength of these lines. A luggage tag is no weaker than a normal splice and the radii are much tighter than the recommend 8:1.

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Last edited by zz4gta; 02-28-2013 at 11:05 AM.
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