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  #11  
Old 08-27-2012
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

Many boats were rigged that way. Some still are.
I would agree that it's always a good idea to replace the rig, if there are any doubts about it, before leaving on a trip out of the country. But I would not hesitate to replace it using the same method.
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2012
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
What exactly do you see that makes it look amateurish?
Is it just the fact that they used Nico Press fittings?
The way the fittings are crimped is sloppy and uneven. The thimble is not supposed to be touching the fitting. It just looks like it was done by someone who hasn't done it much before, perhaps with a cheap set of crimpers. (hopefully the correct crimpers!)

I also wouldn't trust it because there appears to be a great deal of corrosion on the wire, and likely in the fittings. Perhaps it is just the lighting in the photo, but stainless wire rope should be silver not brown!
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Last edited by SchockT; 08-27-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2012
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

The problem is the stress on when you bend the SS to that degree, one of the main reasons they went with straight connectors, either swagged or mechanical.
We replaced all our shrouds with sta loc mechanical fittings, both uppers and lowers. We carry one length of extra line which gives us the flex of self repair in remote locations.
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
The way the fittings are crimped is sloppy and uneven. The thimble is not supposed to be touching the fitting. It just looks like it was done by someone who hasn't done it much before, perhaps with a cheap set of crimpers. (hopefully the correct crimpers!)

I also wouldn't trust it because there appears to be a great deal of corrosion on the wire, and likely in the fittings. Perhaps it is just the lighting in the photo, but stainless wire rope should be silver not brown!


I'm not sure what you mean by "The thimble is not supposed to be touching the fitting".
If you mean it's not supposed to be touching the Nico Press fitting then you're not correct. The thimble should be touching, but not deforming the thimble. With that kind of wire, it's sometimes difficult to get it just right.
From what I can see, whoever did this did a pretty good job.
They left a little more tail than I would have, but that's about all I see wrong with it. And that's not wrong at all. It's just a personal preference.
I would wager that this was fabricated by a fairly experienced rigger. Each NicoPress fitting has three presses. It was double sleeved. It is tight around the thimble. And that's not particularly easy for 1x19.

The turnbuckle is open body bronze and in a perfect world would have a toggle on the bottom, but it's not really necessary for a shroud.

Really, this doesn't look bad, unusual, diy, or unsafe. Why are we trying to scare the poor guy about his rigging?
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Old 08-27-2012
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

the fitting is a nico press fitting it is used a lot on smaller boats. and contrary to what most people believe, it is the stronger of the wire rope fittings. they will hold 100% of the wire rated load. don,t have the corrosion problems of the ss swage fittings. the wire will break from fatigue well before the nico will let go. there are many types of crimpers for these fittings and no matter which one is used the crimp is checked with a gauge to make sure they are crimped properly. on the larger wire that you have the nico takes three crimps with the tool on each sleeve and sometimes the uneven spacing make the crimp curve a little and this is not a problem and does not effect the strength. the thimble will always touch the nico sleeve when there is no load on the wire because the 1/19 wire is trying to be straight and forces the thimble into the sleeve. on both the marine and aircraft cables that I have made I cut off some of the thimble ends to make a smoother transition and prevent the ends from getting bent over time. this procedure is standard on the aircraft cables and the FAA approved method.
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

Yes, a nicropress done correctly is strong. a nicropress done incorrectly, not so much! I was on a 30' race boat that had a wire strop on the mainsheet that held fine for several seasons, then one particularly windy day a gust hit and the strop parted. It pulled the end right out of the nicro. It looked fine, but it wasn't.

I guess what looks good to some does not look good to others! I would not do business with a rigger who used nicropress on my shrouds, but that is just me. It certainly is not a common thing to see in my experience, which isn't to say it's not common in other circles.

That pic rings alarm bells to me, and looks fine to others. At the very least get a professional rigger to inspect it.
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Yes, a nicropress done correctly is strong. a nicropress done incorrectly, not so much! I was on a 30' race boat that had a wire strop on the mainsheet that held fine for several seasons, then one particularly windy day a gust hit and the strop parted. It pulled the end right out of the nicro. It looked fine, but it wasn't.

I guess what looks good to some does not look good to others! I would not do business with a rigger who used nicropress on my shrouds, but that is just me. It certainly is not a common thing to see in my experience, which isn't to say it's not common in other circles.

That pic rings alarm bells to me, and looks fine to others. At the very least get a professional rigger to inspect it.
Okay, Say your a rigger. Someone comes to you with a boat that was rigged like this and has been sailing, without issue for the last fifteen or twenty years or so.
He says that he "wants to do it right".
So you tell him that the most common way is to use swage fitting instead of Nico Presses. The only thing is that swages are going to cost him considerably more.
Additionally, the mast tangs should be changed now because the holes in the existing ones are much too big for a swage fitting.
So now he's looking at spending a lot more for something that is going to do exactly what the rig that would cost half as much has been doing for the last decade or so.

It's tough to sell that all the time.
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Old 08-28-2012
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

With two Nicopress fittings, there is nothing wrong with it. You can actually SEE the crimps unlike any of the swageless fittings some of which have very questionable results in controlled tests. I would actually trust something like this maybe more than any of the slick swageless eyes and forks. After some research, I used Suncor swageless to replace all my rigging ends but I gotta tell you, when you tighten the things up you are really putting a lot of trust in the engineering. My second choice would be Sta-Lok. GOB magazine had a good piece on swage ends a few years back.

That wire looks corroded which should be more of a worry than the crimps. The other thing to worry about doing it that way is getting cut by the wire ends which should be wrapped with some nice white rigging tape. I use them on my main halyard shackle and wrap it tightly with tape. Actually all the wire to rope halyards use them to attach the shackle but that's flexible wire. You can buy a perfectly good hand swager for these for just a few bucks. It does the same thing as the $300.00 swager. Neither is a commercial swage press--a completely different animal. It takes a while to do them carefully by hand but it works fine. It is also a good idea to keep a bunch of crimps, some spare wire, and a small swager aboard in case you need to jury rig something.
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Re: Replace standing rigging?

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas.

Yes, it did have tape on it . . . but I unwrapped it so I could show you on the picture what I was talking about.

After I took this picture, I was inspecting the mast head the other day with a pair of binoculars and I "think" i can see some fraying on the backstay (at the masthead) too. I need to go up there this weekend (ugggh) and take a closer look. Given the unknown history & age of these parts, I'm leaning towards replacing them all.

Given the common nature of these boats, the measurements are well known and "standard". I found some pretty good prices from Catalina Direct on replacement rigging. I plan to order a full set putting on this fall so I can be sure they all fit and are good.

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Re: Replace standing rigging?

While stainless may be the best choice for coastal cruising, where metal fatigue is less of a problem, galvanized steel is a better, and far more reliable choice for long offshore voyages.
Whether copper or aluminium, nicopress sleeves are a bit too soft for standing rigging. 1x19 is a bit too smooth to get a good grip on with sleeves, 7x7 would work better with them. Industrial supplies have stainless and galv steel sleeves they put on with great pressure, for a small fee, which are far stronger and more reliable..
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