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  #41  
Old 09-17-2012
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Re: spare anchor

Chef2Sail, Geoff54,

The implications here, to me at least, border on some saying or implying that this manufacturer is either unethical, not delivering, or if delivering, is providing an inferior product by misleading people. Do you have any evidence of either not delivering, or that the product is inferior? Has he misled anyone on the product? I'm not aware of any such issues....to the contrary, he seems to be delivering as promised and early indications are that the product is as described. If he says steel is grade A and later he wants to change it to a slightly different grade B, or if he says parts are made in country C and for economic reasons needs to shift to country D, he has set himself up for criticism if he makes the needed moves. And if you know the Grade of steel being used and it is different from others, exactly how will you really know which is best? And likely, both grades are ok.

(Not sure why I'm even posting on the subject...guess it's just that it's a rainy day and I don't have anything else pressing),
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  #42  
Old 09-17-2012
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Re: spare anchor

To clarify Geoff54 posts on a previous thread (Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market... ) where Mantus anchors was deleted by a Moderator Jeff H because he was unaware that they were a new paid advertisor on Sailnet. It caused quite a stir and the Sailnet Adfministrator and other mods were involved. Mantus never came clkean at that time about Redskys reltionship

I agree with Geoff54 that there was purposeful deception and disagree with Brians statement

Quote:
Regarding the poster who did not put her affiliation in her signature, I will see what I can do about that. THat has to be done. I suspect that is an oversight on her part. Crusingdad
In the early parts of the thread Redsky posted as Geoff4 posts like just another sailor who met the "mantus guys" at a out like a third party


Quote:
Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Quote:
I met the Mantus guys at our local Spring Fling event here in TX (Gulf Coast). Looks like a solid product with lots of Galveston Bay testing plus testing in Isla Mujueres. They are sized for use in real cruising/anchorage situations - where not dragging is critical. If you are a day sailor you could size down. They were also hopeful they'd be chosen for independent testing - those results should definitely be interesting!
Kinda cool an American start-up has taken on the New Zealand duo :-)-Redsky
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
And I too wish to weigh in and express my sincere apologies. I had accidentally banned Greg on the erroneous assumption that he was an not a paid advertising member and who was posting commercial materials and links in violation of Forum Rules and disregarding warnings against doing so. I wish to apologize publically for my actions in banning Greg and Mantus Anchors, but also more forcefully and perhaps more significantly for my choice of words in doing so. While the responsibility for the mistake in banning Mantus can be shared, my choice of words, was a mistake all my own, and for that I am truly sorry.

So that everyone understands little more about this, one of the less visible, and perhaps more controversial (amoungst us moderators) aspects of being a SailNet moderator is addressing advertising embedded within member avatars, signatures and posts. We treat the restriction against posting commercial material very seriously and try very hard to be fair minded in this.

As an unwritten policy, we, moderators will remove any links from non-advertising member's posts and send a PM to that member advising them that they are in violation, please desist or become an advertiser. (We do summarily ban obvious spammers.)

The Moderator's standard practice when there is a second violation is that we send a more strongly worded warning with the threat of temporary banning. In this case, as Jeff_J had explained above, we had been inaccurately told that Mantus Anchors were not an advertiser, the second message went out, and seemed to be ignored. As a result, I responded by issuing a temporary ban. Mantus was an advertiser and my ban and choice of associated language was eroneous and unfair.

beyond this case, member posting of self-promoting material remains a complex issue. On one hand, being able to post commerical materials is one of the benefits of being a paid advertiser. Allowing members to freely post commerical material therefore diminishes the benefit of being a paid SailNet advertiser. SailNet is in part funded by advertising and so this privilege is important to protect.

Where this becomes awkward is that forum rules allow members to post links to other people's commercial sites. And perhaps more awkward still, is when we have a long term member who is posting a link to their own site, which has some enterprise with either some relevance to a discussion or has minimal finacial gain; such as perhaps a book they have written, or a blog with advertising.

What makes this seem uncomfortable to me personally is that on one hand, I and my fellow moderators believe that we need to both be fair, and appear to be fair in how we administer the rules.

But on the other hand, I believe that it is important for SailNet to support its members and in that regard, it is useful for members to be able to read information "straight from the horse's mouth" but also to provide a place for long term members to talk about what they are doing that might be usefuil to our community or simply discuss what they do outside of SailNet.

The other associated issue is that we sometimes get manufacturers who come here only to promote their product in less than forthright ways. We have had members join under assumed names to either recommed their product or slam their competition. But we also have had members who identified who they were and were posting inaccurate information promoting their product, or grossly inaccurate slams against their competitors. This form of activity violates a different forum rule than the prohibition on posting an ad, but becomes harder to enforce when the violator is a paid advertiser.

These are types of ongoing issues that the moderators and owners have been discussing, and we are hoping to provide creative ways of addressing these issues in the future. I do regret that Mantus Anchor was unfairly treated in the interim.

Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 07-05-2012 at 03:13 PM.
Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No mention that Redsky is a consultant for Mantus. It is obvious Mantus knows and understands th policies of posters now as it was accidently aggreived by Jeff H, but they do not try and correct their person posting who has an obvious tie to the company as a consultant but acts like she just met them at a trade show.

It was Geoff54 who "sniffed out" the relationship
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  #43  
Old 09-17-2012
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Re: spare anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Chef2Sail, Geoff54,

The implications here, to me at least, border on some saying or implying that this manufacturer is either unethical, not delivering, or if delivering, is providing an inferior product by misleading people. Do you have any evidence of either not delivering, or that the product is inferior? Has he misled anyone on the product? I'm not aware of any such issues....to the contrary, he seems to be delivering as promised and early indications are that the product is as described. If he says steel is grade A and later he wants to change it to a slightly different grade B, or if he says parts are made in country C and for economic reasons needs to shift to country D, he has set himself up for criticism if he makes the needed moves. And if you know the Grade of steel being used and it is different from others, exactly how will you really know which is best? And likely, both grades are ok.

(Not sure why I'm even posting on the subject...guess it's just that it's a rainy day and I don't have anything else pressing),
I have never said anything about the product because I have no basis on which to judge. I have no problem with commercial postings but I make no apologies for highlighting apparent deceptions and asking for an explanation. Integrity is everything.
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  #44  
Old 09-17-2012
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Re: spare anchor

As long a a vendor talks about their product and not the other guys I'm okay with that. Caveat Emperor and all that.
The internet isn't free.

Anchors depend on the bottom so type really is arbitary - size and holding ability not so much.
I prefer my stern anchor to be lunch hook sized - good for normal weather conditions - and mostly rope rode. On the Gemini I mostly tied off to a tree as a stern anchor, but when I do drop a hook it's my #22 danforth style. The primary was a #25 Danforth on 25 feet of chain, so not much different.

On the Irwin (20k displacement) I'm looking at one of those new roller types with 200' of 5/16 and 200 feet of 8 plait. The stern will be #35 danforth style hanging on the push pit rail with a rode of 10' chain and the rest rope.
For a third anchor I'll use the #7000 pound ballast and stick her in the mud, probably not intentionally.
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  #45  
Old 09-17-2012
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Re: spare anchor

NCC320. The reason I am asking about the grade of steel is that was a HUGE bone of contention in the differences between the original ROCNA and the Chinese one and the Manson Supreme. Rocna even allowed people who bought the Chinese ones to exchange their anchors I was asking hoping to find out which grade Mantus used.

Quote:
Has he misled anyone on the product? -ncc320
I have no knowledge of this

He has maybe mislead people on just giving Sailnet subscribers the 25% discount and more importantly he has mislead Sailnetters on Redskys identity.

I am more concerned about the product and have asked the obvious questions and am waiting for them to be answered. The only two complaints so far are from geoff54 and I as to the truthfullness of his posting not his product. I am awaiting Mainsails and word from SV Auspicious on any testing they have done on the product.

Let me reiterate I would like to buy this as you did as I would like to have a new generation style anchor like this which can be taken apart and stored to complement my Rocna as a backup. I am heartened by your positive dealing with the company. My considerations on buying are technical as to the bolts, holding power, grade of steel, shank strength. I have bought good equipment from unethical companies before ( ROCNA). That doesnt mean I like that as it made me uneasy about their warrenties, but I knew where their home base was and could get at them potentially if they didnt fullfill their promises.

While it is true of course no anchor is the panacea for all bottoms and conditions, some may be improvements on past ones and do better overall in a greater variety of bottoms. I cant carry 5 anchors on board so I want the best all around one. My personal experience has been that since the new gen achors have come on biard, that they hold as well as reset faster than previous bruce, CQR, fortress, danforth anchors I have had. Thats one persons personal experience as well as practical sailors and Mainsails reviews. Thats good enough for me. Different poeple have different opinions...thats why they keep making different anchors. Mantus new concept of having them being disassembled for storage is a great idea and something I am interested in.


Quote:
As long a a vendor talks about their product and not the other guys I'm okay with that. Caveat Emperor and all that. chucklesR
I am fine with competitors talking about what makes their product better as long as it is done without bashing the other. Who after all knows the better comparisons strengths and weaknesses better than someone technically versed in the equipment. This can be done without trashing the other product. Car dealers do it. Sailmakers do it, Electronics manufacturers do it, wind generators do it. If your product is superior why not compare it. Just dont lie about it. Dont falsify accrediting agencies. Have hidden add on prices etc.

I feel I am beating a dead horse so thats it for me
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Last edited by chef2sail; 09-17-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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  #46  
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Re: spare anchor

Chef 2sail the questions you asked were very reasonable. I'm interested in hearing their reply. Mantus will lose a lot of credibility if they dont repond.
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  #47  
Old 09-17-2012
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Re: spare anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff54 View Post
Sorry Brian - Not an oversight but deliberate attempt to mislead.
Where is this thread? I looked back in this thread and it is not here. I am unaware of the circumstances of her posting. I did not participate in it.

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  #48  
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Re: spare anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I agree with Geoff54 that there was purposeful deception and disagree with Brians statement

In the early parts of the thread Redsky posted as Geoff4 posts like just another sailor who met the "mantus guys" at a out like a third party
Well, I assumed that this redsky person was someone in here that got deleted and I did not see them. I am unaware of this other thread as I have never read it.

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  #49  
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Re: spare anchor

Post 26



Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
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  #50  
Old 09-17-2012
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Re: spare anchor

Maybe she has gone to sockpuppet heaven...
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