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  #61  
Old 04-23-2013
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35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

I am the original poster of this thread. Thank you all for a very insightful analysis of the problem and so much advice. As usual with these things, there are no clear answers and it is up to the individual. If it was all as easy and straightforward as driving a car the oceans would be full of people (breaking their rigs) ;-)

In the end I succumbed to changing the entire standing rigging. The main reason was peace of mind, and it really helped in that regard when the nor'easter was blowing. I choose Norseman fittings and the rigger showed me how to fit them and gave me a few extra for the spares kit. I kept the old backstay (longest wire) as a replacement in case there is a failure at sea. I am feeling better prepared now.

In the end it got me from NY to the Bahamas and back to FL. Since I am planning more offshore cruising over the next years, I consider this a worthwhile investment. It was either new rigging or a chartplotter at the helm. I believe I got the priorities right. ;-)
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  #62  
Old 04-23-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

We just changed all of our original rigging, demasted and stepped our 1979 (34 yo). It was time, and I'm glad we did ... for safety's sake. But that doesn't mean I didn't try to talk myself out of it in the beginning.
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Last edited by dvuyxx; 04-23-2013 at 08:43 PM.
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  #63  
Old 06-24-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Just a quick related note... This year I had what I'm 99% sure was original rigging on a 1968 sloop that was passed by my pre-purchase "surveyor". At my first launch, the yard would not step the mast and showed me the slight curves in some of the swages and tiny faults in some swage collars. My surveyor either didn't recognize its marginal condition or was just less-than-competent. So the lesson is that one opinion is only just that and prevailing wisdom that it get routinely changed-out is probably good advice.

On a second note for those considering making-up the new rigging themselves with Norseman or Sta-Lok terminals... it is E-Z as pie. I had never done it before and ruined my first attempt by over-tightening the dry-fit. But then I got the hang of it and made up all 8 new shrouds and stays in about 3 hours. I used all-new materials from the chainplates to the tangs & masthead and spent 30-40% what I would have paid for a rigger who would have used swages (most feel Norseman / Sta-Lok are better than swages).
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Old 06-24-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
OK I think I got it.
http://www.ndttech.com/Papers/Crane%...%20methods.pdf

The first couple of paragraphs says the the most wear with wire rope in crane service is rolling over the pulleys caused damage to wire.

Usually, fatigue breaks develop in segments of the rope surface that come into direct contact with a sheave or drum.


If that is the case then bad strands will show up before any other damage is critical in a crane.
With a boat since the wire don't move it can fail first in places that can not be seen.
Shock can cause metal fatigue, and it occurs at a molecular level and cannot be seen by the naked eye until it is just about too late. I am not a rigger, but I have been in the oilfields long enough to know what happens when a wire rope or cable parts under pressure. I also owned part of and operated Trans-System Pipe and Storage in the Port of Houston for several years, we had an electro magnetic inspection system on site for inspecting oilfield pipe, you could see defects in the pipe wall area and the end areas under the EMI that were absolutely undetectable to anyone with the naked or any other kind of eye, the flaws were micrfissures in the wall of the pipe.

I wish I had thought about it at the time, as I no longer own any part of the business, I could have made spare change on the weekends by figuring our some way to put the rigging on a board and running it through the EMI LOL.

If it is 35 years old I would replace it, it sucks to spend the money, but it sucks more to die. As to the guy who says that sailing to the Bahamas or other islands is not a big deal...he must not have ever sailed in the storms that come up out there, very suddenly sometimes, and often very harsh when they do come up. I would not like to get dismasted out there.
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Old 06-24-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

once in a blue moon everything goes right in creating wire and rigging. The rigging lasts and lasts almost forever. it was perfect at the beginning. How long will it last. I don' know. Do you replace it? The replacement wont last as long. Will it fail? Get the best opinion you can and then make your decision. Nothing lasts forever, except nothing.
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Old 06-25-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Seeing a lotta talk about age and corrosion. I skipped over some so if I'm repeating someone else, apologies. It seems the salient point should be this inescapable FACT. Metal fatigues. Rigging only one season old, but raced or worked hard, but still clean and shiny, is much older in terms of fatigue than a 10 year old rig that has spent life doing casual weekend cruises. There are averages. This is why there's a cut off after so many years for the typical cruiser. There's always some stress, even dockside. Sooner or later it's coming down. It's up to you as to when that is.
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Old 06-25-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

If the boat is 35 years old, or from 1968, whatever... the cost of replacing standing rigging would be a large percentage of the value of the boat.

Mine done in St Martin was $750 for forestay, 1,500 twin backs, $350 inners, $750 outters... total $4,500 plus yardage. Fine for me, I cruise oceans. But for a boat that does coastal cruising, day tripping its a lot. I wouldnt have it replaced.
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Old 06-25-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

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Originally Posted by tominny View Post
I just had a professional rigger inspect the lower parts and he said it is fine and does not need replacement.
I would accept the opinion of the professional rigger.
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Old 06-25-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

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Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
I would accept the opinion of the professional rigger.
What is a "professional riggier"? Does he/she have a degree?, How many years of experience? How many boats have they worked without a rig failure?, How many boats have they worked and have had a rig failure? What kind of "certification" or licenses do they have?

Is there such thing as a "professional rigger"?

I know of some riggers that should be considered professional like Brian Toss and John Koon, but many that consider themselves "professionals", are probably not.
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Old 06-26-2013
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Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
What is a "professional riggier"? Does he/she have a degree?, How many years of experience? How many boats have they worked without a rig failure?, How many boats have they worked and have had a rig failure? What kind of "certification" or licenses do they have?

Is there such thing as a "professional rigger"?

I know of some riggers that should be considered professional like Brian Toss and John Koon, but many that consider themselves "professionals", are probably not.
I don't know. I worked for a Lisenced and insured rigging company based out of Miami. I was paid to install and inspect rigging. I left the company and started my own business in Key West. People paid me to inspect and install rigging. I supose by definition I was a professional rigger for a time. They have classes at our local community college on the subject. I guess, the lisence and insurance coupled with the experience, usually gained by working for a reputable rigging company as an apprentice for a while would make some one a professional.
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