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35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

16K views 74 replies 39 participants last post by  Capt.aaron 
#1 ·
The rigging on my 1977 tartan 34C is probably the original. At the very least the PO has not replaced it and he had the boat for 15 years, all the time in Long Island Sound.

I just had a professional rigger inspect the lower parts and he said it is fine and does not need replacement. That was even after I told him that I am planning to the the boat to the Bahamas in Nov (between Gulf Stream and coast as much as possible). He offered to go up and inspect there as well, remove spreader boots, etc. He has an established rigging shop and seem professional.

What do people think about this? I am tempted to believe and save the money for a full replacement, but it contradicts what I have read in many places (replace everything after 15+ years).
 
#2 ·
Is the rigger going to take the trip with you. Is he willing to risk is wekk being and life?

So how much do you trust a 35 year only strand of wire after 35 yaers in the sun/ ice and rain to stay upright while you travel offshore. Many times the weakness and breakage may go sight unseen until the failure occurs. You are already living on borrowed time

Common sense and prudence say I would want to feel secure in my rig, not worry whether it will continue to outkive its time of usefullness.

Replace it.

Dave
 
#3 ·
I just had a professional rigger inspect the lower parts and he said it is fine and does not need replacement.
I don't know how he could say it doesn't need replacement until he has inspected both ends. He was perhaps making an educated guess as to the condition of the upper fittings. It is more common for the lower fittings to go first, but I've seen the opposite a few times.

When I do an inspection and the owner tells me that the rigging is over 15 years old. I tell them, before I begin, that even if I don't find any obvious defects or problems, I'm still going to recommend a re-rig. This is based on the information that I get from the vendors that I buy my wire and fittings from. As well as personal experience.

I think that the fact that you made a post about it indicates you are somewhat wary and something is telling you that you should be concerned.
Imagine how that feeling will be amplified when you're miles off shore in rough seas and squall on the horizon.
Peace of mind is often worth a lot.

And don't forget the chainplates. They probably haven't been inspected, much less replaced either.
 
#6 ·
I'm still going to recommend a re-rig. This is based on the information that I get from the vendors that I buy my wire and fittings from.
Not exactly an impartial source.
You: You think I should spend my money on your equipment, even if it seems to be in good shape?
Vendor: Hmmm... let me check my bottom line. Yes! Change it all at once! And those chain plates as well!

I know, I'm joking, but my point is that if a reputable expert, who stands to gain financially (implied), thinks it is fine, either find another rigger because you don't trust his/her judgement, or go with it. Disclosure: I know diddly about the structural integrity of Stainless Steel at any age.
 
#4 ·
I used to sail on a 40 year old boat, we sailed her hard and we got healed over, cabin side almost in the water, by unexpected squales while having all sails up... She had her original rigging, but on those days, pounding hard when sailing up wind, I would turn around and look at the back stay and wounder, what if??

What I'm saying here is that your standing rigging might still be good, but why would you take any chances?

Pierre
 
#7 ·
I think replacing 35 year old standing rigging is wise but you'll also want to check out the chain plates. Tartans are great boats but this is one area the older boats seem to have problems with.
 
#9 ·
There's one very important data point missing...fresh water or salt water.

I was having a chat with a very experienced rigger. He said he has NEVER seen a failure of a rig on a boat always kept in fresh water going back to 70's vintage boats; unless caused by damage or other error.
 
#11 ·
One nice summer day I climb the mast with the mast climber with the intent to install a windex up at the mast head. After the install went well, I thought maybe I should inspect the tangs/wire up there. Sure enough there was a 3/4" crack in the 1" tang(fitting). I almost pissed myself as I slowly worked my way down the mast. The rigging looked great at deck level and there was no way I could have seen this crack at deck level. Any way the rigging was 20 years old and I replaced all the stays.Just saying that deck level is only 1/2 the story.
Brad
Lancer 36
 
#14 ·
First, get a new rigger. A professional rigger who is not suspect of rigging that is at least 15 years old and could be as old as 35 is incompetent. I have read quite a few descriptions of riggers cutting open swayed fittings to find cracks that had not yet reached the surface. IOW, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't lurking under the surface.

Get a new rigger and replace everything. This is your life and you are trying to justify saving a few bucks.
 
#15 ·
Rig failure is a probability. The risk starts to increase at ten years and increases by time. 35 years is really long but your rig seems to bypass the probabilities in 25 years of time. Your rig might still hold for another 35 years but to be on the safe side is better.
 
#17 ·
I am getting ready to re-rig my 1988 PSC 31 which still has its original rigging, just because of its age, even though it "looks good" on inspection. I do ocean sailing.

My question is: If the turnbuckles also "look good" do I need to replace them too?
How often do turnbuckles suddenly fail without obvious signs of weakening?

And is it recommended to replace the headstay furler at the same time (Harken MKIV origianl equipment)? This is obviously a BIG expense which I would like to avoid if not a major safety issue. It is working fine but definitely old.

Thanks in advance for your advice and thoughts.
 
#18 ·
It is funny how many different opinions there are on this subject. I seem to recall another thread not to long ago where someone posted pigs of their standing rigging that looked obviously corroded, and yet those of us advising replacement were accused of "trying to scare" the guy, and that it is probably fine! Now we have a situation where a professional rigger has rendered an opinion that something looks fine, and people accuse him of being incompetent and unprofessional! Perhaps he is just being honest? By all means get a second opinion, and pay for a more thorough inspection, but don't panic just because it is old.

My standing rigging is the original rod rigging that came on the boat (as far as I know), and it is in excellent condition. It has been inspected and given a clean bill of health. Naturally I have been given the usual sales pitch and butt-covering statements regarding the possibility that something "could" fail even though it looks fine, but I do take those with a grain of salt.

Having said that, I am budgeting for a major mast overhaul, including standing rigging, but in the meantime I am not worried that my mast is going to fall down just because my rigging is old!
 
#19 ·
It is funny how many different opinions there are on this subject. I seem to recall another thread not to long ago where someone posted pigs of their standing rigging that looked obviously corroded, and yet those of us advising replacement were accused of "trying to scare" the guy, and that it is probably fine! Now we have a situation where a professional rigger has rendered an opinion that something looks fine, and people accuse him of being incompetent and unprofessional! Perhaps he is just being honest? By all means get a second opinion, and pay for a more thorough inspection, but don't panic just because it is old.

My standing rigging is the original rod rigging that came on the boat (as far as I know), and it is in excellent condition. It has been inspected and given a clean bill of health. Naturally I have been given the usual sales pitch and butt-covering statements regarding the possibility that something "could" fail even though it looks fine, but I do take those with a grain of salt.

Having said that, I am budgeting for a major mast overhaul, including standing rigging, but in the meantime I am not worried that my mast is going to fall down just because my rigging is old!
The other thread that you refer to was about Nico-pressed eyes. The pics that the owner posted showed some surface corrosion. That is normal. The turnbuckle also looked fine.
This thread is about a hypothetical situation where no one has seen any pics and the rigger didn't even go aloft.
I made the statement about not scaring the other fellow because his Nico-pressed eye looked fine in my opinion.
I, and I would guess others are basing their opinions in this case on Tominny's statement that the rigging is probably 35 years old.

Apples and oranges.
 
#22 ·
Reading my last post, I realize it sounds rude. Sorry.
What I mean is that in a lot of places in the world, that rigging and the extent of the surface corrosion would be of little concern. But I do rigging in Florida and you live in B.C.
I absolutely believe you when you say you don't see that kind of corrosion very often in your local marinas. But you live in a cold northern climate. In Florida, a moderate amount of surface corrosion is pretty normal.
 
#23 ·
You have to face facts. Nothing lasts forever and stainless steel frequently corrodes from the inside out often with little or no visible external indication. 35yrs is pushing your luck regardless of your location.
 
#24 ·
Northern climates...... some amount of a slower deteriation of your standing rigging.

Second thought... do you know if its had some amount of time out of the marine environment? (stored on the hard for example)..... My point is, years are only one measure.

Your 35 years could have been hard service ..... or who know what. Inspect it and then inspect it again.

Many things can go bad on a boat. Don't obsess about every little thing that can go bad. If you do...... You will never sleep again!

Age is only one measure.

Just my opinion...... and yes, I have an older boat that I trust and enjoy!
 
#25 ·
If there are so many unknows with how long SS wire rigging will last (some say 7 years others say 10), why don't rig builders build rigs that have backup stays and shrouds. Say use a double back stay rig and always have lower forward and aft shrouds. On the bow always have the forestay as well as an inner forestay. Maybe add some running back stays to boot.

Seems to me we put a lot of faith in a single strand of wire. A wire that no one really knows if or when it will fail. And a wire that if it does fail, could bring the entire rig down.

Also, I believe the older wire and fittings were of higher quality than much of what is made today. So that 35 year old rig may be in better shape than what a new rig made out of inferior stuff would be. To bad rigging materials do not have somthing like a UL label stating that it has met minimum quality and strength characteristics.
 
#26 ·
I was the poster in that "other thread" about the NicoPress fittings.

Yes, I have decided to replace the standing rigging when I bring it in for the winter (next month). It will cost me a single "boat buck" ($1,000) to do it. The 'insurance factor' is worth it for me. I'm fairly new (compared to many of you out there), and absolutely need the boat to support me and what predicaments I put us into.

Next year, we have a huge trip on the calendar (2 months in the Bahamas). This is the culmination of years and years of planning/saving/preparation. Take a chance on losing the mast in the 'gulf-stream-crossing' due to a sudden squall and 39 year old rigging?? . . . 'hell no'.

Just my two cents worth (lol, that's about all I have left after upgrading everything!!),
mark
 
#28 ·
Does it matter if it's fresh water vs salt and northern (4-5 month season) vs year round and stored down and indoors during the 3/4 year off season...

My rigging is 34-35 yrs old and in seriously looks like new condition.... I take it down in winter, rub a nylon over it no snags, super clean, no corrosion, no discoloration...I eyeballed the fittings each end (sorry no nuclear irradiation) and they look sharp...what I would expect to see if I opened a new package..

I'd have a real hard time condeming it by age only...
 
#30 · (Edited)
Bottom ends will be far more likely to deteriorate than the top ends. If the boat has lived most of its life in a marina, there is little chance of the rigging having deteriorated much. If it had tens of thousands of offshore miles on it , that would be a different story.
Boaters get scammed into changing their rigging on locally only cruising boats, far to often. You are lucky to have found an honest rigger, who will tell the truth, rather than try scam you into hiring him to relplace your rig.
Sun and rain have no effect on good stainless.
Bahamas is not a long offshore voyage, nor are any of the West Indies.
 
#32 ·
If you look at how a cable is rigged to a crane you'll notice that every connection is open.You can instantly tell when it begins to fail. Most states require that cranes undergo some type of inspection on a regular basis. I know a guy that worked at Bethlehem Steel Company in Baltimore and he said state inspectors were there at least once a month doing safety checks on heavy equipment. Same was true at Sparrows Point Shipyards.

My swage fitting on my 27 Catalina's forestay covered a completely severed cable. There was no rust, no indication that anything was wrong, and just prior to the forestay's failure we were sailing in 20-knot winds with a full jib on a beam reach. Within seconds of furling in the jib the 1/4-inch stainless cable parted inside the lower swage fitting and the jib-sail, roller furling system, etc... slid into the waters of Chesapeake Bay's upper reaches. Quick thinking and lots of luck resulted in being able to salvage the sail and system before any serious damage occurred. The sail and roller furler were lashed to the lifelines, the old jib halyard was quickly utilized to stabilize the mast to the bow, the main was folded up and secured and the engine was fired up and we were headed back to the marina - hoping no other rigging would fail during the 4-hour trip.

The rigging had been inspected by a certified and very reputable marine surveyor just a year prior to the forestay failure. The surveyor said "There's really no way of determining whether or not the rigging is OK. Without some very expensive X-ray equipment, there's no way of seeing inside the fittings, so they could be OK, or ready to fall apart and no one could determine which is the case." He did, however, suggest that the rigging be replaced because it was 30 years old and original equipment. He was right!
 
#36 · (Edited)
As my privious post show. There is a lot of rigging equipment that uses swage type fittings (chokers for example- which cranes typically attach to to lift equipment) and they are inspected reguarly, but they are not disposed of bast on an age. The other thing, if sailboat rigging cannot be inspected and cetified 100% that it is good for service, seems we got a problem. Either we use a different material (galvanized or bronze wire) or we have additional stays and shrouds to act as back ups. Seems we put a lot of faith into a single piece of wire that even an experienced rigging inspector cannot tell you "this wire is good for 25,000 miles of 25 knot sailing". When you get an industrial crane inspected they do not use x-ray, yet the inspection is assumed 100% reliable and in fact we do not have many crane failures if the inspections are done properly.
 
#33 · (Edited)
I guess that in summary:

- It depends. Is the boat in fresh water or salt water? How often is it used? How hard is it sailed? Are extremes of temperature a problem? To take extreme examples, carefully coiled rigging stored somewhere in a dry warehouse for 35 years would probably be safe...if used in offshore racing, 5 years could be too much!

- I think also we are talking probabilities. After 15 years of typical use, the percentage failure rate is low. At 20 years, probability of failure is higher, at 25 higher still, etc. As Clint would say, "Do you feel lucky"?

- How do you intend to use the boat? If you are daysailing in light winds, you may decide the odds are in your favor. If you are crossing the Atlantic, that may change your risk tolerance. (If I was going offshore, I would replace my chainplates and standing rigging without hesitation)

There's lots of good advice here; your rigging may be fine at that age, if just depends on your unique situation.
 
#34 ·
Lots of great points made, but you might just want to contact Tartan Yachts and ask them. I’m curious to see what they have to say.

Tartan Yachts
1920 Fairport Nursery Rd.
Fairport Harbor, Ohio 44077
Phone: 440-392-2628
Fax: 1-888-266-9070
 
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