What else could I have done? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree15Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-22-2012
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,818
Thanks: 206
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
davidpm is on a distinguished road
What else could I have done?

Last Monday night I was on a friends boat till after dark. On our way back he checked his phone and mentioned that a storm system was predicted for Tues.
The next morning I walked down to the beach and it already was too rough to get to the boat but the storm was predicted to hit hardest north of us.

That evening I again went to the beach and saw that the topping lift had let go but the boom was not banging around just setting on the deck. So far so good.

There was no way I could get to the boat in those conditions.

That evening about 10PM I got a call that the boat was on the beach.

I had it on a 500 lb mooring with 3/4" primary and 1/2" secondary chain and the heaviest pennants that would fit on the boat.

The pennants were not over the bow rollers but lead through the side openings that have little vertical rollers just for chafe.
I'm wondering how the bow roller casting broke?
The pennants had some chafe gear that just barely fit.

The pennants chafed through and the boat went on the beach.
What else could I have done other than move the boat to a more protected area.
The seas, according to the town harbormaster hit 10' and 50 knots.
Attached Thumbnails
What else could I have done?-p9190035-small-.jpg   What else could I have done?-p9190036-small-.jpg   What else could I have done?-p9190037-small-.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 09-22-2012
asdf38's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 724
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 5
asdf38 is on a distinguished road
Re: What else could I have done?

Really sorry to hear/see that. I have no idea.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 09-22-2012
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,818
Thanks: 206
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: What else could I have done?

We haven't had a full survey yet but so far it looks like minimal damage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 09-22-2012
PeterSailer's Avatar
Bathurst NB
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bathurst NB
Posts: 183
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
PeterSailer is on a distinguished road
Re: What else could I have done?

I never heard of it but it might be possible to moor your boat with all chain? The end would be stainless steel so it wouldn't stain the boat. Wouldn't help for the broken bow roller but at least it would never shafe through.

Glad there is no major damage, and how are you getting it back in the water?

Pierre
__________________
I hate storms, but calms undermine my spirits." - Bernard
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 09-23-2012
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,818
Thanks: 206
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: What else could I have done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSailer View Post
Glad there is no major damage, and how are you getting it back in the water?

Pierre
Already re-floated. Towed to marina, mast stepped and boat hauled. Season over.
I could find no evidence of rudder damage despite the apparent bending in the video.


jameswilson29 likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 09-23-2012
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,617
Thanks: 4
Thanked 93 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
Re: What else could I have done?

Sweet Baby Cheeses David! Sorry to read about this episode and glad to hear that the damages seem to be minimal.

Don't feel bad. A very similar thing happened to us when we first bought our boat except it was a $.25 flat head screw embedded in our teak cap rail that severed our pennant. Insurance 'totalled' the boat but we fixed it up again. Probably should rename it 'Phoenix', but that is not going to happen, again (I hope).

Since your Bene 32.5 does not have a wooden cap rail to hide sharp screw head in I can only surmise that your chocks and broken anchor roller played a part in 'parting' your lines (I am sure you had 2 pennants). Did you leave an anchor deployed in the bow anchor roller? That might have also contributed to the chafing.

I think you need better chocks, better pennants and better chafing gear along with a clean lead from the bow of your boat (no anchor or roller for the pennants to get caught in). Another option might be a 'snubber' deployed on your pennants but I've never used them.

I suppose all you could have done is to add an extra pennant or two if you thought it was going to be really rough. We did this for tropical storm Irene last August and survived on our mooring in the Hudson. PITA to rig up but a good feeling that we did all we could do, short of getting hauled out.

The LI Sound is a protected body of water but when the winds come from certain directions the fetch can be very long and create some pretty big waves, as you know. I'm just a bit surprised to hear that you had 10' waves in CT though.

Check the rudder post, prop shaft and whatnot. If you want to go for a fall day sail then come up to Nyack again.

Hope all else is well.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-23-2012
Dean101's Avatar
Life is a wild ride!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 403
Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Dean101 is on a distinguished road
Re: What else could I have done?

I've read in several books about how spade rudders are easily damaged. I must say that your video refutes those statements pretty well. Your rudder plowed a trough through the sand and there was no apparent damage? WOW!

Do you think your pennant could have jumped out of the chocks and wrapped around the bow roller with the wave action? Perhaps some type of keeper over the opening might have helped. When I was looking for chocks to put on my Endeavour I thought the ones with overlapping horns looked much more difficult for a line to slip out rather than the ones with an open top.

I'm glad to hear you didn't lose your boat and hopefully there won't be any unnoticed damage. Good luck to you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-23-2012
Gene T's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Left Coast USA
Posts: 666
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Gene T is on a distinguished road
Re: What else could I have done?

A terrible sight. Glad damage is low. I wonder if there was adequate scope on the mooring. A very high tide and 10 waves could put the boat attempting to lift the ball, likely aggressively as a severe shock as it rises on the waves and the chain goes taught. That would break anything.

Gene
dacap06 and Sunday Driver like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Currently in Long Beach, CA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-23-2012
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,539
Thanks: 13
Thanked 149 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: What else could I have done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Last Monday night I was on a friends boat till after dark. On our way back he checked his phone and mentioned that a storm system was predicted for Tues.
The next morning I walked down to the beach and it already was too rough to get to the boat but the storm was predicted to hit hardest north of us.

That evening I again went to the beach and saw that the topping lift had let go but the boom was not banging around just setting on the deck. So far so good.

There was no way I could get to the boat in those conditions.

That evening about 10PM I got a call that the boat was on the beach.

I had it on a 500 lb mooring with 3/4" primary and 1/2" secondary chain and the heaviest pennants that would fit on the boat.

The pennants were not over the bow rollers but lead through the side openings that have little vertical rollers just for chafe.
I'm wondering how the bow roller casting broke?
The pennants had some chafe gear that just barely fit.

The pennants chafed through and the boat went on the beach.
What else could I have done other than move the boat to a more protected area.
The seas, according to the town harbormaster hit 10' and 50 knots.
David,

Sorry for your loss. I have a few questions.

1- I would like to see a picture with the pendants stretched out and lined up with where it could have chafed?

2- Was the anchor on the bow?

3- Were there two pendants or more?

4- Are the pendants nylon?

Some thoughts..

Yes there is much you can do when a storm is coming to minimize the potential for chafe.

1- Multiple pendants. In normal conditions I have two but for storms I rig 4+

2- All pendants should be of unequal length. This buys MORE TIME throughout the storm as the remaining pendants are brand new, unloaded and not chafed.

3- Pendants should not be led over "weak" bow appendages such as anchor rollers. Aluminum would qualify as a "weaker" appendage. A roller will help minimize chafe but it needed to be robust and "capture" the pendant so it can't hop out of it. Bungy cord can work well for retaining pendants in rollers.

4- Pendants in storms should be looooong!! Sharp angles over a chock create heat, heat melts nylon and the nylon parts. Long pendants mean a gentle angle over the chock and less heat built up. The pendants in the foreground will endure significantly more chafe and heat than the ones in the background.


5- Anchor need to be removed in storm conditions. They can slice through a pendant in short order and many boats I have seen ashore were actually caused by bow anchor chafe not chock chafe. This guy was VERY lucky he had two pendants because the ANCHOR snapped his first one.


6- Water permeable chafe protection is better than hose or non-water permeable chafe protection. It helps keep the pendants cool and helps to limit melting. Multiple layers have proven best for me alternating between polyester and cordura. I use three layers on each pendant cordura/polyester/polyester.


7- Polyester/polyester pendants survive significantly better to chafe and heat than do nylon pendants. Yale Cordage, the makers of the "Polydyne Pendants" have tested this extensively. They used to sell polyester/nylon, a vast improvement over nylon or nylon/nylon but recently switched to polyester/polyester for better durability under chafe and heat.

8- In storms that may get severe my FOURTH and longest pendant is attached to the boat with polyester/chain/polyester. The chain is about a 3' in length, just enough to get through the chock, then covered in multiple layers of chafe gear to protect the boat as much as possible. This is a LAST RESORT pendant. There are three others that can fail before this one gets used.

9- I rode out that same storm, though peak winds were slightly lower, and our pendants were nearly 35' long to the ball.

10- Captive chocks are far better than non-captive chocks at retaining pendants in storms. If your boat is not well suited or designed for "mooring" then some bow upgrades should be considered. Many builders think in terms of docks not moorings. This is our boat set up for a medium duty storm 35-45 knots so no chain pendant. The pedants were rigged for about 30' and all three of unequal length. Note the captive bow chocks and SS stem head. I do utilize our roller but the stem head is extremely robust.


11- HEAVY bottom chain, and I mean USCG bar between the link or the 10-20 pounds per foot stuff, help limit "shock loading". Our chain is 30' of USCG bottom chain and 25' of 3/4" top chain. I don't think we've ever snapped it tight. Even if we do the longer storm pendants help minimize any shock loading to deck gear. This is the chain for our "light weather mooring" for a 36' sloop. We also have a storm mooring where the boat was the night of your storm..
knothead, Barquito, Cal28 and 1 others like this.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-23-2012 at 09:18 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-23-2012
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,818
Thanks: 206
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: What else could I have done?

Well you pretty much covered it.
Since the storm was calming down by the time the boat broke loose I'm sure some extra and longer pennants would have helped.

They did break at the side chocks.
They were not lead over the bow rollers.
They were much too short. I had complained to the mooring guy about that before.
And you are right about the bow setup. As you can see by the picture the space in the chock is limited for chafing gear.

I am assuming that you attach the extra pennants to the chain with thimbles just like normal.
There was no anchor on the bow. I had read your recommendation previously.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:58 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.