Replacing lead Keel bolts - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-13-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
cousineddy is on a distinguished road
Replacing lead Keel bolts

The Keel bolts looked good, but when I went to check the torque, all but two twisted off with little effort. Kinda scary. Anyway, its a lead keel, probably has the studs casted in. I would like to replace, or add new bolts next to the failed ones with out fully removing the keel. I heard that some have used lag bolts. Has anyone tried anchor bolts? Like for concrete? Or, I wonder if setting a helicoil into the lead would be strong enough? Or maybe some other type of blind insert?
Attached Thumbnails
Replacing lead Keel bolts-picture-012.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 10-13-2012
Gene T's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Left Coast USA
Posts: 666
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Gene T is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

I believe I would drill a new hole for the new stud. Then drill a large hole in the side of the keel to meet the end of the first hole to put a nut/washer on. Drop in some threaded rod, put a nut on the bottom, one on the top and torque it down. I would probably try to remove the old ones first but that may be more trouble than it is worth.

Gene
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Currently in Long Beach, CA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 10-13-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NH
Posts: 515
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 3
misfits is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

It's a good thing you torqued them down, sounds like there's not much holding that keel to the boat. No matter how you decide to fix it, you should really drop that keel enough so it can be cleaned out & rebeded.

You may want to check these guys out.
Keel Bolt Replacement | MarsKeel
__________________
I'm not happy unless I'm complaining about something.
I'm having a very good day!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 10-13-2012
kd3pc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Callao, VA
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 9
kd3pc is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

on a 30+ year old boat, I certainly would not use some threaded rod and a few nuts....were it an iron keel you may have gotten away with "unscrewing" them and replacing with the correct pitch bolts

IMHO this is a wake up call to have the keel repaired or replaced by a reputable mechanic or yard with experience. The threaded rod generally available today is junk, not coated or strong enough for your task. The original bolts were likely "L" or "J" shaped and quite stout stainless or coated steel and cast in place as the keel was poured. If you do drill holes be aware that hitting that hidden stainless will likely walk the bit around and out where you really don't want it to...that assumes you can find a decent bit long enough.

Same with any blind insert that will be inserted from the top, If two were bad, you can be assured the others are not too far behind.

For your safety, get it fixed correctly
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 10-13-2012
Gene T's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Left Coast USA
Posts: 666
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Gene T is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

I think the solution here is not to spend $3,000+ to repair a 33 year old 25 foot boat. That is why doing it yourself is appealing. What really is a viable alternative?

Gene
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Currently in Long Beach, CA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 10-13-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
cousineddy is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

Well, drilling the hole the side of the keel is an excellent idea. I dont see how that would be any less strong then the boat yard method. I believe they sink new J or T bolds, then melt lead in to fill the gap. I think drilling a hole then inserting a circular stainless plug, with a radial tapped hole is the ticket. I think I will use good quality bolts instead of all-thread. I should have thought of that. Kudos!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 10-13-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,017
Thanks: 6
Thanked 51 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

Most cast in place bolts are just threaded rod, with different designers preferring stainless others like hss steel, and there is a small faction switching to other more exotic materials. For replacement though there really isn't a good option except melting the lead away from the old bolts, and replacing them with new. Frankly a hex head bolt cast in place is a pretty poor option. The head has pretty minimal surface area compared to T or J rod, which increases the problems of point loading.

As for material, it really depends on what you are looking for. A quick cheap fix to get back on the water, go with steel.

Arguably better is stainless, but in keel bolts it has a lot of problems.

If you want to fix it once and never worry about it again, titanium.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 10-13-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NH
Posts: 515
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 3
misfits is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

Some people will grind out a pocket on one side of the keel so you can put a bigass washer & nut on a piece of s.s. rod & crank it down from inside the bilge. Then you just fill & fair the keel pocket you created with epoxy.

This works if you need to repair a keel bolt or two. Sounds like in your case the only thing holding the keel on is the 5200 it got bedded in 33 years ago.
__________________
I'm not happy unless I'm complaining about something.
I'm having a very good day!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 10-13-2012
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,832
Thanks: 58
Thanked 52 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

GeneT has the best advice here IMHO but I'd add one other choice. Your keel is only 1200 Lbs or so - not a huge lump. There is a type of fastener called a "Hanger Bolt" that has conventional threads on 1/2 of it and lag type threads on the other 1/2. If you got some good big ones in good metal, carefully drilled new boltholes, no larger than the minor axis of the lag threads and wrenched them down into the lead it should be adequate.

I believe Catalina advises this type of repair on one or more of their smaller boats. It's called "sistering" the bolts.
__________________
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 10-13-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
cousineddy is on a distinguished road
Re: Replacing lead Keel bolts

I am familiar with hanger bolts. That sistering Idea sounds easy. Hmmmmmm. I could add a couple extra bolts too.

...And it is for sure hanging by the 5200 like a dingle berry, lol. All the nuts are loose or broke. Thats strong stuff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing the Keel Bolts fparry Gear & Maintenance 8 03-30-2010 11:35 PM
sister bolts in lead keels distantdrummer Gear & Maintenance 1 07-09-2007 02:57 PM
new bolts on encapsulated lead keel Santa30 santana30 Gear & Maintenance 2 07-02-2007 05:50 PM
Lead ballast bolts scottcarter General Discussion (sailing related) 3 08-24-2006 01:37 AM
Steel Keel vs.Lead Keel Rondolais Chartering 1 12-24-2003 03:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:55 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.