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-   -   Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/93735-toe-rail-replacement-white-oak.html)

HighFly_27 11-03-2012 10:17 AM

Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
I have evaluated my Toe Rail and it's fairly soft, (42 yr's. old) cracked and may not last me through my intended life of the boat for me (3 to 4 yr's.).

I measured the side toe rails @ 2 7/8" high, 2 1/2" at base, 2 1/4" at top (tapered). I need 36' feet for one side X's 2 = 72' feet total, bow toe rails a little different about 6' feet and curved stern rails = 4' feet.

I have received recommendations for: White Oak or Black Locust for internal structure members, that are sealed with epoxy to protect them.

I priced the Teak out and it will run about $ 1.5 K to $ 2.0 K bucks for all of it. I planed on re-using most of the S.S. hardware but will add $ 300.00 more for replacment hardware as needed.

My No# 1 Question, has anyone used White Oak (epoxy sealed) for Toe Rails

and what were your results ______________ ?


I can buy the Teak ($ 2K) but would rather use USA Wood ($ 300.00). I do not want to go through all this work and have So, So Results. I don't want the boat to look like a 2nd hand ... repair deal, and distract from the boats appearance & resale. I have all the necessary shop tooling to reproduce this (replacement) toe rail with 99% reproduction results.

chucklesR 11-03-2012 11:11 AM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Oak belongs inside. Even if you paint it will look like a 2nd hand repair deal, because it will be. You need a tight grained, dark, weather resistant wood to not distract from appearance. You need teak to not lower resale.

Look up IPE, or even mahogany decking.

As I said in another thread, cheap, fast, good. Pick one.

deniseO30 11-03-2012 12:07 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Avery,Chuck, actually white oak weathers much like teak. It will turn silver grey and it will darken with oil and varnish. It's even been used for wooden dams by the settlers back in the day. Epoxy will peel off in short order though and epoxy can't hold up to sunlight. Granted, it won't look anything like teak or mahogany or teak.

HighFly_27 11-03-2012 01:19 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
ChucklesR,

You're Spot On .. so get out the $ 2 Grand.

I'm having a problem with finding Teak (finished) of the correct length. I see (3) splices on the side or the boat, so 10 to 12 ft. long X's (3) splice in points on the I-37. The correct size is -- 2 7/8" high, 2 1/2" at base, 2 1/4 at top X 10 to 12 ft. in length. I need (6) lengths = 60 to 72 ft., with the (2) bow short sections included in, 68 ft. should do it with no waste.

I see the correct size teak for sell but only in 8 ft. lengths (only). I did see marine lumber places that specialze in marine wood but closed today; and shipping by freight will be costly (price of life) for 10 or 12 ft. sections.

The Teak comes pre-finished, would you apply a 2nd or 3rd coat of Teak Finish.. or leave it

alone __________ ?

copacabana 11-03-2012 01:51 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Highfly, are you sure you want to go to all the trouble for a boat you're going to keep for only 3 or 4 years? Can't you just epoxy, fair and paint the old toerail and just go sailing? I have seen from your other threads that you have your hands full with your boat and its repairs. It seems a shame to spend so much time fixing your boat for the short period you intend to keep her. I wonder if it's more prudent to unload this boat and get something in sailaway condition?...

If you do decide to go with wood toerails, I second Chuckles suggestion of Ipe. It is cheaper, excellent for deck stuff, lasts forever and is much more resistant than teak.

Frogwatch 11-03-2012 02:57 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Oak and teak are two woods not recc'd for use with epoxy, it won't stick.

HighFly_27 11-03-2012 03:45 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Well.. I See your Point.

I think that the current (42 YO) toe rails are a coin flip on making it for 3 years or so. I'd rather do it now and have it done. Really, the I37 is not a bad boat and fair + shape in it's present condition. The yard master had zero money to make with me, he said that this boat had a lot of money spent on it (eng. & trans., etc.) and was seaworthy. The rudder & 4 x 4 hole is not a big deal and well within my comfort zone ($$ & my fix).

The other items will add up i.e. electronics, 2 windows (fogged), A/C repair, cold box, 2 rotted areas, DC panel, control cables in cabin (not tight) and more. I see 10K + and we are sailing, if 5 K more.. then, I can handle it. Currently, I have $ 8,800.00 in the I-37 and it's not costing me slip rental.

My Son is 17 and has taken a interest in the boat. I was hoping he'd go this route and he's asking me a lot of questions (everyday). He's in the process of setting the I-37 as his 2nd man cave. He running the TV cable and power out to it. If he continue's his interest.. I will add him to the 3 day refresher sailing course with me in December.

I'm a down to earth guy and have figured everything out from A to Z. I could have bought a boat that was ready to go but it would have been about 20K or Up. I figure about 18 to 20 K in the I-37. The big ($20 K) s money for major items has been spent done by the former owner. I figure about 250 man hours of labor at 25 hours per week = 10 weeks work. I think I will be done with the boat at the end of March time frame.

The biggest reward for me.... getting my Son involved, he may fall in love with sailing. If he works on it and becomes personally involved, this will be good thing and smiles. If he takes a interest, then, I will not worried about selling the boat in 3 years or so. I'll give the I-37 to my Son. If he vest's enough time in the boat... he may/ will have some special memory's in his life (my smile's will be priceless). I'm not trying to sell my dreams to my Son... he may not take a long term interest but that's my logic.

I will fix the I-37 and it will be rewarding project for me. I may epoxy the toe rails but will not deal with them until the big items are fixed 1st. I may find some teak at a great price and smile even more .. with new toe rails.

Avery

CalebD 11-03-2012 03:56 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Ipe, or Ironwood is extremely durable, which is why they use it for exterior decking. It is also as hard as iron and would be murder on any power tool blades.

Teak would be my first choice for this application but is expensive. I would not buy pre-finished teak which would just make expensive wood even more expensive. If you are having trouble finding appropriate sized teak stock then you have not checked out M. L. Condon in White Plains, NY. Pretty far from PA or FL but they have had a variety of different thickness stock in their yard. Pretty sure all their wood is surfaced on 3 sides, 1 side rough.

Mahogany would be my 2nd choice. When finished nicely it can look as nice as (sometimes even better than) teak. Mahogany is a bit cheaper than teak.

copacabana 11-03-2012 04:28 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Highfly, you've got the right attitude! I'm happy to hear your 17-year-old son is involved. It'll be a great father-son project. My son just turned 18 and has been my boat companion (and labourer!) for the last 4 years. Just remember to get out sailing during the repairs. A day out sailing with your son will make it all worthwhile.

Caleb, while Ipe is HARD, it is very much suited to this application. Here in Brazil, where Ipe is a native wood, it is often used to replace old aluminium toerails. The stuff is TOUGH! The biggest problem working with Ipe is it can be hard to get a smooth finish (it likes to "chip"). Go slow with the power tools and it should be fine.

misfits 11-03-2012 04:47 PM

Re: Toe Rail Replacement with White Oak or ?
 
Fat Andy's Hardwoods Hardwood Lumber

These guys provide teak for Sabre. Tell them the dimensions you need, where you want the scarf joint, best part it is real teak & they'll ship it right to your door.


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