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post #31 of 51 Old 11-16-2012
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

Gary, I'm in the same boat!

s/v My Sweet Girl!
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post #32 of 51 Old 11-17-2012
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryHLucas View Post
You are right, and rating a pump at charging voltage constitutes fraud in my book. I didn't think about the voltage when I was writing, I seldom see anything other than 480 volts 3 phase, and voltage is seldom a problem!

Gary H. Lucas
Rating these pumps at charging voltages and OPEN BUCKET (no head) rates IS FRAUD but that is how its done. I hate these pumps but people don't want to pay for a real bilge pump when you give them the quote.

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post #33 of 51 Old 11-17-2012
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

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Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
Mast, when I replied to your previous post, you said your question was NOT a boat application, that you wanted to pump water uphill, and not have it flow back when the pump cycled off. You DIDN'T say you were actually using a Rule bilge pump.
The solution to your problem is to get the right pump. Note: the right pump will have a power cord that you will plug into a 120 volt receptacle. It will have sufficient head to pump the height you need to pump to and overcome the head losses from the discharge hose, turns, bends, and check valve, if used. It will likely be 1/6th hp, perhaps 1/4, impossible to say without knowing all the specifics.
I would be happy to put a pump there that will plug into a 120V receptacle. Problem is there is no 120V receptacle to be found near it The pump is powered by a deep discharge battery which in its turn is powered by a solar panel.

As I said in an earlier post, this is to remove a nuisance puddle. We are talking about lifting a few gallons of water up by 2 1/2 feet after each good rain.
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post #34 of 51 Old 12-21-2012
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

Also just came across this from Rule:

"The Rule Pumps FAQs.

Can I install a check valve on the pump discharge?

Check valves are not recommended

Why doesn't Rule Pumps want check valve on the pump's discharge?
Check valves are prohibited by the American Boat & Yacht Council for use as an anti-siphon device-and with good reason: They're notorious for failing in both the open and the closed position, which respectively leads to flooding or failure to pump. If the valve is close to the pump, the pump may not be able to overcome the weight of the water on the other side of the valve, rendering the pump ineffective

Why does my automatic Rule Pumps turns off if I install a check valve on the discharge of the pump?
The automatic bilge pump turns on about every two and a half minutes to "check" for high water. If water causes resistance on the pump, it continues to pump until the resistance lowers. With the check valve installed at the pump, it cant feel the weight of the water, and shuts off, allowing the bilge to fill with water!"


They must have read my mind....

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post #35 of 51 Old 12-22-2012
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Rating these pumps at charging voltages and OPEN BUCKET (no head) rates IS FRAUD but that is how its done. I hate these pumps but people don't want to pay for a real bilge pump when you give them the quote.
That kind of fake rating is common in many industries. Air compressor motors are frequently rated at the point the motor burns out, stereos used to be rated at "peak music power", lots of electrical tools & appliances have phoney ratings.

Technically it isn't fraud if it can actually do it - the fact that the device melts or otherwise self destructs at that point is a fact not considered by the law.

Quick rule of thumb for electrical devices - 7 amps is roughly equivalent to one HP on 110 voltage. If they don't declare the amperage, either don't buy it or assume they are "lying" about the HP.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #36 of 51 Old 12-24-2012
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

I wouldn't use a check valve on an automatic centrifugal pump where's there's not problem to solve. A problem would be that you have such a long discharge hose that when the pump stops the hose water drains back causing the pump to cycle again. The risk you have with an automatic pump is if the valve sticks when you're gone your pump is OOC until you get there and fix it. Over time that may burn out the pump.
I do use a large bronze foot valve on my large manual diaphragm pump which reaches down into a bilge pocket that's about 2 feet below the waterline. This has a large hose and I'm pumping a lot of air to get to the water. The biggest risk is of it being stuck closed in an emergency so I have to flush it periodically. I can pull the hose and bang on it if it's stuck.

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post #37 of 51 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

Been reading lot of posts on this subject. Just put in a West Marine centrifugal pump with electronic float switch. I know I won't put in a check valve after reading. The deep section of the bilge is around 30" deep then starts to the stern rising another 8-10" guessing. Originally had a diaphragm pump that gave up the ghost. It was mounted toward the back of stern. Where the hose met there and then went to the discharge it went up about 2' under the cockpit seats and over to the back and then down to the discharge. The drain discharges under the stern. Sits about 6" off the water line. Have the issue off backflow so it won't turn itself off. Replaced the hoses. Using 5/8. What I have not seen is where best places are to make a loop and how much is really needed. Wondering if I could find a spot behind the engine area and make a shorter loop. Does it need to be a vented loop or just loop the hose up. Also intend to put a large high volume above it when I get this one corrected. Is it better to have the discharge straight out the back of the stern vs underneath

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post #38 of 51 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

It needs to be a vented loop with the vent as high above the water line when heeled as you can get.

Some people use a big centrifugal pump with inlet a few inches from bottom of bilge. Then a small diaphragm pump with the intake at bottom of bilge. The diaphragm pump has an integral non-return valve. But still the hose should have a vented loop although the hose can be smaller than the big pump hose.

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post #39 of 51 Old 06-17-2014
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

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Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
Agreed, you need to prevent back siphoning which includes a high loop and a siphon break.. but you're quite wrong about having the check valve up high defeating the purpose. Hose drain back is irrelevant - it's, what, 1 litre of water max?

Think about what happens when you put the gunnel under on a flush-deck boat with the bilge pump exit out of the side just above the waterline - even with a high loop and a siphon break.

Boats have sunk because of that.
when i ran my bile pump, i didn't run it to a through hull. i ran it out, under the starboard cockpit bench, to exit on the side of the bench, above the cockpit drain well. it dumps right into that and then out through the cockpit drain. since it's not actually outside of the boat, i don't have to worry about that. which is why i did it that way.

this is a picture of the outlet just above the cockpit drain well.

http://

this is right after i installed it. you can still see the remnants of the price tag on the drain fitting. but i don't have a cleaned up picture.

The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do.---Captain Jack Sparrow


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post #40 of 51 Old 06-17-2014
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Re: Bilge pump non return valve.

So you ran your pump outlet to somewhere not outside of your boat? Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
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