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  #1  
Old 11-09-2012
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There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

Ref: 1970 Islander 37 MS

I have some pictures of the torn out cleat and the pending repair (no beef up) is not a problem.

This boat broke away from it mooring and tore this cleat out and the bow line snapped too. I don't know how bad the storm was, just know that the I37 broke free and laid on its side when the tide went out.

My Question: How much reinforcement should ( ___ W. in. x ___ L. in.) one add

to beef this area up. I can add a backing plate of marine plywood and oversize S. S. under the nut heads.

The Question -- what is too much reinforcement... would it cause more damage if this area was reinforced too much ?

My Guess, add 1/2 in. marine plywood, cut the width to go inside the area with 1/2 in. clearance top & bottom. The length can be a little (more room) longer, make it about 10 inches long. I noticed the raised reinforcement (cleat) boss area by Islander. So, just add the plywood to fit this bossed area only (no bigger in size). 2nd step, back up the bolt nuts with S. S. oversize body washers. I could go longer in length size but may/ would tear (too much ?) the whole back of this cleated area off the back ... if the rope(s) did not snap.

Let me know what you have done to repair or beef up your attachment points on the back side of cleats, winches, etc. ?


The Pic's. will show the back side of the torn out cleat, the sister cleat (both sides) and the torn out cleat (both sides).
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There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber-repair-%7E-9-nov-009.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber-repair-%7E-9-nov-007.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber-repair-%7E-9-nov-015.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber-repair-%7E-9-nov-019.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber-repair-%7E-9-nov-017.jpg  

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Old 11-09-2012
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

Boy, that was either weak already or took some serious force to rip that out like that. I'll be interested in the advice you get to strenthen that.
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Old 11-09-2012
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

There are two (or more schools of thought on that).
1) reinforcement other than big washers is not necessary as that is stronger than the breaking strength of the line - and would serve only to rip out a large hole (that's what the designer of my last boat went by, Tony Smith, PCI, Gemini catamarans).

2) Put as much backing plate area as you can under the bolts, in any case if possible go with twice the diameter of the bolt.

As you can see from your pictures even without the backing plate it still ripped out a nice hole. And it lasted 40+ years before it did that.
Sort of argues for #1 now doesn't it?
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Old 11-09-2012
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

on the other side of the topic.. the stronger it is the more it will break and break badly More lines rather then 1 or 2 to keep a boat in place is safer.
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

I have used 1/4" aluminum plate as backing for cleats. For the area where you experienced failure of the glass, I might glass the plate in.
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Old 11-09-2012
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

the best method is the use of G10 laminated material bonded with thickened epoxy to the inside as a backup plate . with the plate bonded on it will eliminate the stress points that are caused by a metal plate and does not corrode.
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Old 11-09-2012
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

1.One problem is the side mounting of the cleat. This will require better bolts and backing than a typical top mount, as the load is not in shear. I suspect it took less than you think to start it rocking cracked some fibers, and pulled it out. I might consider relocation.

2. The question is also dependent on the underlying laminate. There seems to be a lot of mat and not much cloth. You need to spread the load until the existing laminate is enough for the job at any angle of pull. Thus, the size of the plate is completely dependent on the existing layup.

3. On really thin hulls (this may be one) It can make sense to lay-up a large (12 inches?) section of hull with several layers of glass, following all of the curves, and then add a backing plate. I've done this on honeycomb hulls with good results.
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Old 11-09-2012
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
1.One problem is the side mounting of the cleat. This will require better bolts and backing than a typical top mount, as the load is not in shear. I suspect it took less than you think to start it rocking cracked some fibers, and pulled it out. I might consider relocation...
+1 on that. Terrible design to have a mooring cleat side mounted like that. Do you also have horizontally mounted cleats? My boat has both but I only use them for shear loads. Like dragging the dinghy.
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

Quote:
Originally Posted by overbored View Post
the best method is the use of G10 laminated material bonded with thickened epoxy to the inside as a backup plate . with the plate bonded on it will eliminate the stress points that are caused by a metal plate and does not corrode.
I agree with the G10 and thickened epoxy if you truly need include a backing plate. If the plate is rigid and flat (steel or aluminum) and the surface to which it is mated is typical bumpy fiberglass you will have induced stress points.
While you could also epoxy mate stainless, for example, you'd still have an environment where corrosion can occur.

Builders know this and either incorporate plywood (or other material) into the laminate and or flatten the mating surface smoother - or as you've seen on your boat just use big washers and lots of goop.
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Old 11-09-2012
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Re: There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !

Here's the Pic's of the other Cleat & Winch on the starboard side, Top & Bottom views. It looks about the same underneath but different loading (mt'd. on top).

I agree, the matt. looks real thin, guessing less than 1/16" thick. I will include one more picture of the torn out (starboard) cleat.

I like all the suggestions i.e attach more morring ropes, laminate in a stiffner & goop up this area with epoxy, make sure that it's all even too. 2nd, consider the addition of two more cleats (mt'd. on top). This top/ corner location will pick up the load better (less shear off stress). I have good access (underneath) to the top rail, not a problem to add 2 cleats to the top, on corners.

I think it's the best time to beef up the other cleats & winches. Once I get set up for the this repair, the other (5) beef ups & 2 add on's will not be that expensive or time consuming.

End Result -- I'd like to know that these cleats are not weak and will hold a reasonable load, & will not pop off like pop corn (really thin fiberglass material).

I know you've heard it before... I really appreciate the advice from everyone. I'm in a whole new world now (sailboats). I have fair to good back ground in other areas (mechanics, aircraft, etc) but Not Sailing Machines. I'm like a 10 year old kid...reading & reading and pondering everything out. I listen to the advice here and lock this information in. I write a lot of information down (SNet posts. & info. log) to have " You All Proof Me Out (so to speak). " So, bear with me, I'm not a rachet jaw in real life. It drives me crazy to write & repeat my intentions (planed or corrected ideas) to make sure I'm Ok & Going in the Right Direction.

So, Thanks and Thanks Some More for Your Time & Spot On Advice.


Avery
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There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber.-repair-%7E-9-nov-002.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber.-repair-%7E-9-nov-003.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber.-repair-%7E-9-nov-004.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber.-repair-%7E-9-nov-018.jpg   There She (Fiberglass/ Stern Cleat Torn Out) Blows !-fiber.-repair-%7E-9-nov-007.jpg  

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