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-   -   Cleating the Sheets... (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/95239-cleating-sheets.html)

Squidd 12-26-2012 05:48 PM

Cleating the Sheets...
 
I think I hve my traveler figured out/reconfigured to a useable state...

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...veler-run.html

Now I wonder about my Jib Sheet lines (jib sheets)... Hardware end, securing to deck top...

Last year (as purchased) I ran them to a moveable track, then back to fixed block... to winch and tied them off with a standard cleat hitch...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...idd/217110.jpg

I was playing around with the idea of an open cam cleat to back up the stock cleat...Pull secure thru the cam and hang the line on the stock cleat...

I did however pick up some nice bulls eye swivel cams (in the correct size for the sheets) when I got some small ones for the traveler...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/cleat.jpg

Would there be any advantage to removing the open cam and stock cleat shown above and just use the swivel cam for the sheet (off the winch) and then just hang the extra sheet/line off the cam between tacks...??

Disadvantage...? Just stay stock tie on cleat hitch...?[/

sailingfool 12-26-2012 06:27 PM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
My advice would be to stick with the open camcleat as the bullsyeye becomes just another opportunity for a knockle to hang you up half way through a tack. Because you are running the jib sheet from the winch, the swivel, bullseye and strap don't add any value to an open camcleat, unlike their usefullness when you are adjusting a traveller line from across the cockpit.

Squidd 12-26-2012 06:59 PM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
So your saying the open cleat I have is probably the best bet ...?

Do I still need the "stock" cleat for backup is it redundant...? or a good idea to hang onto it...?

I can always resell the swivel cleats on e-bay...

CorvetteGuy 12-26-2012 07:37 PM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
Stick with your set up keep the cleat ya can never have to many

pdqaltair 12-26-2012 08:46 PM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
Do NOT use a bullseye at all. Return them.

IF you get an override you want to be able to lift the line vertically under tension and control to clear. Plain cam cleats are the best option. They also hurt less when you sit on them and snag ropes less. Bullseyes are only used in aps where you tension by pulling on the line, like dingy tackles and small boat traveller lines.

Personal preference is for all cam cleats (no horn cleats), but this varies from boat to boat. I find horn cleats have too much snag potential and I like the quick release of cam cleats. On the other hand, some dislike the potential for cam cleats to come loose if the line is yanked.

Sabreman 12-26-2012 10:30 PM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
Cam cleat or horn cleat, but not both. Pick one or the other. Advantages to cam cleats (without bullseye) are as other posters have said. But keep in mind that cam cleats are mostly limited to securing sheets in smaller boats, up to about 20' or a little larger. At 26', the loads on your sheets are getting high and the small bolts used to secure cam cleats may not be up to the job. Of course, with 4 or 5 wraps on the winch, there isn't that much load on the cleat.

I'd probably stay with a horn cleat and a single locking hitch. This is in conflict with conventional wisdom that says that locking hitches are not used with sheets. My counter argument is that 5 or 6 wraps on a cleat take longer to release than a single properly made hitch.

We have self tailing jib winches and never use the horn cleat sitting next to the drum. But on our last boat, we had standard winches and cleated them on a horn cleat.

pdqaltair 12-26-2012 11:07 PM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabreman (Post 967325)
But keep in mind that cam cleats are mostly limited to securing sheets in smaller boats, up to about 20' or a little larger. At 26', the loads on your sheets are getting high and the small bolts used to secure cam cleats may not be up to the job. Of course, with 4 or 5 wraps on the winch, there isn't that much load on the cleat.

We have self tailing jib winches and never use the horn cleat sitting next to the drum. But on our last boat, we had standard winches and cleated them on a horn cleat.

The first statement, without reading the sentence that follows, could be misleading. The cam cleat should be holding no more than the hand tailing load; less than 50 pounds. I have used cam cleats on big boats with loads well over 2 tons without difficulty. My current jib winch loads over 1500 pounds when driving hard and a cam cleat holds with light pressure if there are 4 turns on the winch.

As for self tailers, if driving a boat hard in gusty conditions, the line should not stay in the tailer; it takes too long to release and can jam up if the tail washes overboard. At least this is true for multihulls and tender boats, and larger boats that lack the crew to keep a hand on each sheet. A cam cleat is good for this.

sailingfool 12-26-2012 11:08 PM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Squidd (Post 967219)
So your saying the open cleat I have is probably the best bet ...?

Do I still need the "stock" cleat for backup is it redundant...? or a good idea to hang onto it...?

I can always resell the swivel cleats on e-bay...

I'd use the camcleat when racing or doing a series of short tacks, otherwise, I'd use the horn cleat as a more reliable set-and-forget arrangement.

Sabreman 12-27-2012 12:17 AM

Re: Cleating the Sheets...
 
Quote:

The first statement, without reading the sentence that follows, could be misleading.
Actually, it's contradictory. I knew it when I wrote it. :laugher

Obviously I agree with you but for me, knowing that there is that much load on the other side of the winch is scary. While I know that I should have 4-5 wraps on the winch, reality is sometimes different and it's possible to have only 1 wrap. Then the load is getting big. I've had crew do it and I was either too lazy (or polite) to point it out or didn't notice.


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