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post #11 of 92 Old 12-29-2012
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Re: Anchor Wars

Mantus,

Could you run some tests .....same as those presented....with say a 6 ft. piece of 1/4" or 5/16" chain shackled to anchors and then the same rope rode length? And if doing it with 25 lb. anchors, increase the chain length to say 20 ft. Would there be a difference? Just my opinion, but I believe more people might be impressed since this more closely duplicates what they do.
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post #12 of 92 Old 12-29-2012
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Re: Anchor Wars

While I believe this anchor sets well, I can't count how many set demonstrations I've seen in my lifetime that have shown this same comparison to the competition. They can't all be true.

The only thing I don't like about the Mantus are the bolts. Perhaps that's unreasonable or old fashioned, but I prefer a one piece anchor.
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post #13 of 92 Old 12-29-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Anchor Wars

We certainly could, and we might... The truth be told that no matter what we do people are naturally sceptical and will certainly question our claims and challenge our video presentations. Chain certainly improves virtual scope via the centenary effect and thus improves setting ability.... And though I know that in this particular location the above anchors will not set with/without chain.... What our aim was is to show in the video that even in the worst conditions "no chain", "short scope", "very hard bottom" and the anchor still "SETS"

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post #14 of 92 Old 12-29-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Anchor Wars

We believe that setting is the single most important attribute, because in an emergency, like: your engine does not start and the wind is pushing you towards rocks. The anchor has to bite and it has to bite fast....
So what we do is provide this reliable and unbeatable setting ability.... at the same time there is no compromise on holding power, robustness, and the anchor disassembles for easy storage...

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post #15 of 92 Old 12-29-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Anchor Wars

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
While I believe this anchor sets well, I can't count how many set demonstrations I've seen in my lifetime that have shown this same comparison to the competition. They can't all be true.

The only thing I don't like about the Mantus are the bolts. Perhaps that's unreasonable or old fashioned, but I prefer a one piece anchor.
That is why we did not report numbers or measure distances, we just shot the videos and showed you everything zoomed out.... There is no where to hide any tricks..... Again these are not nominal conditions! Rocna, Spade are known for their setting ability but still there are areas where they don't work,
Mantus works everywhere..... and that is what you need for emergency gear.

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Last edited by Mantus Anchors; 12-29-2012 at 04:39 PM. Reason: typo
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post #16 of 92 Old 12-29-2012
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Re: Anchor Wars

Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding

I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.

Have some chain, have an anchor weight that most of us would use not 8 or 9 llbs.
and a scope other than 2:1. I would never anchor like that. Your cantenary angle would be to high and with a large wake pull it right straight up. Do it more scientifically. Where is the other "new generation anchor the Manson Supreme"? Makes me wonder why it was omitted and you used a spade instead.

I have a very hard time believing your design is significantly better than Rocna and Manson and I think you are splitting hairs and will lose people if try and say that. The fact that it their equal is good enough. You "claim to fame" here is that its easier to carry because it dissassembles not that its better than the other two.

I dont buy that and certainly after this kind of demonstaration. Come on your product is good, dont ruin it with something that looks like a stunt.

Dave


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post #17 of 92 Old 12-29-2012
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Re: Anchor Wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding

I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.

Have some chain, have an anchor weight that most of us would use not 8 or 9 llbs.
and a scope other than 2:1. I would never anchor like that. Your cantenary angle would be to high and with a large wake pull it right straight up. Do it more scientifically. Where is the other "new generation anchor the Manson Supreme"? Makes me wonder why it was omitted and you used a spade instead.

I have a very hard time believing your design is significantly better than Rocna and Manson and I think you are splitting hairs and will lose people if try and say that. The fact that it their equal is good enough. You "claim to fame" here is that its easier to carry because it dissassembles not that its better than the other two.

I dont buy that and certainly after this kind of demonstaration. Come on your product is good, dont ruin it with something that looks like a stunt.

Dave
I agree with Dave - and the others...

The idea behind the video is great, but you need to make it appear as unbiased as you possibly can;
  • use a chain leader
  • use a greater scope (3:1 is a JOKE)
  • start the test in the same spot
  • pull with a vehicle


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post #18 of 92 Old 12-29-2012
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Re: Anchor Wars

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.

Dave
---------Not this time. I agree. While I think Mantus has a great product from all I have seen or heard about owner/user results, I think they are missing the boat in convincing people of the value of their product.

Typical suggested test: 25 lb. anchors (or 35), 20-30 ft. 5/16 chain, 5/8 nylon rode, set at 7:1 scope, and again at 5:1 scope. Also, veering pull to 90 degrees after set. Record maximum pull (holding force), as well as distance to set.

While the above would be a better test, in the interest of time, for a quick and dirty test by hand with the 9 lbs. anchors, repeat those earlier shallow water tests with a 6 ft. piece of chain between the rode and the anchor. No one that I know anchors without at least a bit of chain connected to the anchor. And include Manson Supreme and Rockna, as well as the others (danforth, spade, bruce, delta, CRQ, and maybe Fortress). That's your current competition, and the old anchors that people have to be convinced to discard.

Both Chef and I have bought a Mantus (because of the disassembly feature) as a spare/storm anchor, so we basically believe in the product.

Side Note:

This link mentioned by Mantus as basis for the tests he presented:

http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...or%20Tests.pdf

Claw style (Bruce knockoff), Rocna, Mantus Supreme were compared. As a Bruce owner I was gratified to see that, of the three, Bruce was the top one. In too many of these anchor tests by other anchor manufacturers and by supply houses selling anchors, the tests always show the Bruce being horrible, but lots and lots of people swear by them. Same with Danforths, but they are everywhere. So one can kind of see that if performance were plotted vs. cost, more expensive and newer are always better....no bias here? or maybe a little bit? or even a whole lot, after all, they want us to buy something.

Mantus, many of us believe yours maybe tops, but some additional testing would go a long way in reassuring us.

Last edited by NCC320; 12-29-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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post #19 of 92 Old 12-29-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Anchor Wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding

I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.

Have some chain, have an anchor weight that most of us would use not 8 or 9 llbs.
and a scope other than 2:1. I would never anchor like that. Your cantenary angle would be to high and with a large wake pull it right straight up. Do it more scientifically. Where is the other "new generation anchor the Manson Supreme"? Makes me wonder why it was omitted and you used a spade instead.

I have a very hard time believing your design is significantly better than Rocna and Manson and I think you are splitting hairs and will lose people if try and say that. The fact that it their equal is good enough. You "claim to fame" here is that its easier to carry because it dissassembles not that its better than the other two.

I dont buy that and certainly after this kind of demonstaration. Come on your product is good, dont ruin it with something that looks like a stunt.

Dave
Our Product is good on that point we agree I am glad


First I think you should watch the video another time and you will see the Manson Supreme is in there, we did not want to crowd the video, but Manson Boss does not set here at any scope. Hold, did you even watch the video ?

We use 2:1 Scope to mirror the Practicle Sailor Test:
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Anchor%20Tests/Practical%20Sailor%20Large%20Anchor%20Tests.pdf

Its a way to challenge the anchor, as stated earlier, even in these conditions Mantus Sets. To a reasonable person that implies that in less demanding conditions it will work as well..... If does not, you can reference a video library of pulls with and without vehicles, with and without chain and at different scopes.
Test Videos | MantusAnchors
We are still working on it, but I think will satisfy everyone's idea of a perfect Test eventually.....
What I am trying to relate in this video is that Mantus "Sets" better than competition if I thought it was no different than its brothers I would not be spending this time to convince you otherwise....

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post #20 of 92 Old 12-29-2012
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Re: Anchor Wars

I'm in agreement with Chef, instead of trying to prove your anchor sets better than Rocna or Manson do a real life test with some decent sized anchors with some/all chain on them. Setting is only one part of the anchoring equation, maximum holding is the other IMO. Having an anchor set quickly is great, but if it starts dragging when the wind picks up it isn't a good anchor. It may just be me but I'm also picking up a bit of attitude in your responses to the questions, suggestions and criticism from your potential customers here. Not smart.

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