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Anchor Wars

12K views 91 replies 25 participants last post by  Mantus Anchors 
#1 · (Edited)
#2 · (Edited)
In the video, chain rode is not being used, why? Does Mantus suggest not to use any chain? I looked on your website but couldn't find any information regarding the suggested set up for the rode, swivels, etc?

Also, why demonstrate with such a short scope, 2:1? Who realistically would set a anchor using 2:1 scope? Are you kidding? On the contrary, the videos on your website show a unreasonable long scope since the anchors demonstrated are attached to a hitch on a Jeep. The angle of the rode appears to be less than 10 degrees, maybe 20:1? LOL if that?

I'm not trying to imply the Mantus isn't a good anchor, in fact I may purchase one, but I think your video demonstrations are flawed and not showing realistic conditions or results.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Besides what formal test do you know, that tests setting in hard to penetrate bottom....
Have you ever seen at test where an anchor from a big Manufacturer completely failed? Tests don't get set up that way..
The closest you could come to a real test is Main Sail.... And the combined knowledge of the sailing community....
In an emergency you need gear that you can rely on, it needs to work all the time and every time.... and immediately
 
#8 · (Edited)
Just a party trick demonstrating that the fluke angle of their anchor is a few degrees greater, which doesn't actually correlate to better overall. I believe it is very likely an exceptional anchor, but the pitch is an embarrassment to Manta.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I am not sure what is meant by the fluke angle ?
If it is the angle between the shank and the fluke....
Than, Spade infect has the biggest Shank to Fluke angle..... And bigger fluke to shank angle does not help setting ability but hurts it....
If you think ability to set in hard to penetrate bottom is not important to you you are right you should not be impressed, but if you want an anchor that sets everywhere an anchor you can count to set in an emergency even at short scope...
Than you should care....
 
#11 ·
Mantus,

Could you run some tests .....same as those presented....with say a 6 ft. piece of 1/4" or 5/16" chain shackled to anchors and then the same rope rode length? And if doing it with 25 lb. anchors, increase the chain length to say 20 ft. Would there be a difference? Just my opinion, but I believe more people might be impressed since this more closely duplicates what they do.
 
#12 ·
While I believe this anchor sets well, I can't count how many set demonstrations I've seen in my lifetime that have shown this same comparison to the competition. They can't all be true.

The only thing I don't like about the Mantus are the bolts. Perhaps that's unreasonable or old fashioned, but I prefer a one piece anchor.
 
#15 · (Edited)
While I believe this anchor sets well, I can't count how many set demonstrations I've seen in my lifetime that have shown this same comparison to the competition. They can't all be true.

The only thing I don't like about the Mantus are the bolts. Perhaps that's unreasonable or old fashioned, but I prefer a one piece anchor.
That is why we did not report numbers or measure distances, we just shot the videos and showed you everything zoomed out.... There is no where to hide any tricks..... Again these are not nominal conditions! Rocna, Spade are known for their setting ability but still there are areas where they don't work,
Mantus works everywhere..... and that is what you need for emergency gear.
 
#13 ·
We certainly could, and we might... The truth be told that no matter what we do people are naturally sceptical and will certainly question our claims and challenge our video presentations. Chain certainly improves virtual scope via the centenary effect and thus improves setting ability.... And though I know that in this particular location the above anchors will not set with/without chain.... What our aim was is to show in the video that even in the worst conditions "no chain", "short scope", "very hard bottom" and the anchor still "SETS"
 
#38 ·
The parameters you were testing were very valid IMHO - being able to operate on short scope is an extremely valuable trait for an anchor.

I would recommend that you be more careful with your video work to ensure that all tests are viewed or presented the same - seeing one anchor being pulled with the tester, rode and anchor all in full view and another where only the anchor can be seen can lead to skepticism in the viewer.
 
#14 ·
We believe that setting is the single most important attribute, because in an emergency, like: your engine does not start and the wind is pushing you towards rocks. The anchor has to bite and it has to bite fast....
So what we do is provide this reliable and unbeatable setting ability.... at the same time there is no compromise on holding power, robustness, and the anchor disassembles for easy storage...
 
#16 ·
Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding

I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.

Have some chain, have an anchor weight that most of us would use not 8 or 9 llbs.
and a scope other than 2:1. I would never anchor like that. Your cantenary angle would be to high and with a large wake pull it right straight up. Do it more scientifically. Where is the other "new generation anchor the Manson Supreme"? Makes me wonder why it was omitted and you used a spade instead.

I have a very hard time believing your design is significantly better than Rocna and Manson and I think you are splitting hairs and will lose people if try and say that. The fact that it their equal is good enough. You "claim to fame" here is that its easier to carry because it dissassembles not that its better than the other two.

I dont buy that and certainly after this kind of demonstaration. Come on your product is good, dont ruin it with something that looks like a stunt.

Dave
 
#17 ·
Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding

I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.

Have some chain, have an anchor weight that most of us would use not 8 or 9 llbs.
and a scope other than 2:1. I would never anchor like that. Your cantenary angle would be to high and with a large wake pull it right straight up. Do it more scientifically. Where is the other "new generation anchor the Manson Supreme"? Makes me wonder why it was omitted and you used a spade instead.

I have a very hard time believing your design is significantly better than Rocna and Manson and I think you are splitting hairs and will lose people if try and say that. The fact that it their equal is good enough. You "claim to fame" here is that its easier to carry because it dissassembles not that its better than the other two.

I dont buy that and certainly after this kind of demonstaration. Come on your product is good, dont ruin it with something that looks like a stunt.

Dave
I agree with Dave - and the others...

The idea behind the video is great, but you need to make it appear as unbiased as you possibly can;
  • use a chain leader
  • use a greater scope (3:1 is a JOKE)
  • start the test in the same spot
  • pull with a vehicle
 
#20 ·
I'm in agreement with Chef, instead of trying to prove your anchor sets better than Rocna or Manson do a real life test with some decent sized anchors with some/all chain on them. Setting is only one part of the anchoring equation, maximum holding is the other IMO. Having an anchor set quickly is great, but if it starts dragging when the wind picks up it isn't a good anchor. It may just be me but I'm also picking up a bit of attitude in your responses to the questions, suggestions and criticism from your potential customers here. Not smart.
 
#22 ·
The trouble with the video test is the precise angle of all rope rode, which may take advantage of a specific geometry of the Mantus. However, lets see it over a variety of scopes, with and without chain and at other weights.

Seriously, every single anchor manufacturer out there has determined the precise test they will win.

I'm not saying this isn't a good anchor, just that the video isn't as convincing as it was intended and may be backfiring a bit. Run it through all the paces and you may have something I've never seen another document.
 
#24 ·
I believe mainsail HAS purchased an anchor, and has some basic test results posted. Overall, he was pretty impressed as I recall.

There is another fellow local, that has one as his std anchor, and has gone thru some 60 knot winds and held so far. Altho with his pertinacity to figure out how to ground his boat......not sure a 100 lbs version will do him any good. I can figure out how to get the size he has, IIRC in the 40-50 lbs range.

Marty
 
#27 ·
Guys, step back a second! Even if we could accommodate everyone's wishes and conduct a perfect test that was designed with solid scientific method and reported nice graphs with confidence intervals for all the engineers out there ;). I will present this data in a write up or a graph and everyone will believe it obviously because I am ...Russian? or Just have an honest face? I don't even shave but once a month.
Why not take it for what it is..... Here in our great state of Texas ;) there is a beach that has hard bottom.... small anchors don't set there, Mantus does.....
It sets there even at short scope. If that does not tell you anything..... well so be it
However there might be some viewers out there that pause and say:
"little baby 2 lbs Mantus can set, where a 21 lbs Spade can't, I will take note"
So this videos though not helpful to some provide useful info to others or so I hope ;)
Be safe out there with whatever you got on your boat
Cheers
 
#30 ·
Honestly, I think you guys are being a little obstinate. The video seemed like a fair comparison to me in terms of what was being shown. Was it "scientific"? No...it's a dude on a beach in shorts dragging anchors around on a short line for crying out loud. But you can't deny that for those conditions shown, the Mantus was pretty consistent in setting where the others weren't.

Mantus - a word of advice, you'll never win if you go down this road.
 
#33 ·
Good advice to Mantus. You can't video your own test and defend it. If there was a single attempt where the Mantus didn't bite, would it have made the edit?

Obstinate? Not really. I think its a good anchor, just like all the new-gen anchors. It's just a bad idea to film yourself to try to prove anything.

I'm still waiting for the vid of Smack flying one hull of Fiasco in the air, with a drink in one hand and the tiller in the other. But I ain't believing it's the first attempt...... :)
 
#31 · (Edited)
Actually, Mantus has made a number of different test videos. On one of his website pages, you will see tests using a winch on a truck with a chain/rope rode on the anchor to illustrate the holding power in that particular bottom. In another video, he summarizes the test results in three different bottoms giving the holding forces achieved in those tests. In those tests, you would have to say that Mantus was all around better. We've been a bit hard in some of our criticisms and those criticisms might be resolved a bit by reviewing all of the test series presented at this link, especially those in typical anchoring conditions:

....Test Videos | MantusAnchors

When I try to post the link above, it comes out different from what the page shows. Type in this link.

www.mantusanchors.com/test-video
 
#40 ·
Dear Netters, I feel like you are a family... Some members are at times problem children but I love you all nontheless ;) So I wanted to disclaim that whatever anchor you have, you should be proud of it and defend it it is your right! But if you are in the market for a new boat present, check this video out....

 
#41 ·
Much better vid. It shows that each set similarly (unlike the previous vid), but the Mantus held better as you tried to power them back out. It is worth noting that the test uses anchors designed for boats generally under 20ft. A truck powering them back out isn't astonishing.

Nevertheless, you should really hire an independent certification company to do these tests and publish them. Your confidence in your product is clearly high enough to justify the effort. Manufacturer self-test advertising will always involve a little suspicion, no matter how hard you try. I have no desire to discredit, only to point out that these may have been the best showing of a dozen attempts. Seems you stand a good chance of winning an independent showdown.
 
#45 ·
Mantus: Why are your recommended anchor sizes so much larger than Ronca or Manson?

I have a 7000lb empty, so probably 9-10000lb full 28' boat (Pearson 28-2). The conservative recommendation from Ronca is a Ronca 10 (10kg/22lbs) (good to 11,000lb boat). From Manson it is the similar weight Manson Supreme 25 (11.2kg/25lbs).

However the Mantus website recommends a much larger 16kg/35lbs because the 11kg/25lb model is only recommended for boats up to 5000lbs (an odd recommendation since few 30' cruisers are that light).

This immediately turned me off of your product even though some other aspects (the disassembly for instance) were nice.
 
#48 ·
Mantus: Why are your recommended anchor sizes so much larger than Ronca or Manson?

I have a 7000lb empty, so probably 9-10000lb full 28' boat (Pearson 28-2). The conservative recommendation from Ronca is a Ronca 10 (10kg/22lbs) (good to 11,000lb boat). From Manson it is the similar weight Manson Supreme 25 (11.2kg/25lbs).

However the Mantus website recommends a much larger 16kg/35lbs because the 11kg/25lb model is only recommended for boats up to 5000lbs (an odd recommendation since few 30' cruisers are that light).

This immediately turned me off of your product even though some other aspects (the disassembly for instance) were nice.
Its simply the matter of being conservative for real cruising use...
The problem is all the test are done in good holding grounds....
If you go to an area that has loose muck its a completely different story
We size for a boat to stay put in 50-60 knot winds in protected bay..... Regardless what bottom you encounter....




In this video pay attention what happens in loose bottom

So we envelope our recommendation to cover the worst situation
 
#47 ·
I like the lifetime warranty. Same as Rocna. Requires either company to be in business in the future, of course.

There was incredible controversy over Rocna claiming a higher grade of steel that would better resist bending the shank, but then fell back on the warranty to protect buyers against failure of a lesser grade metal. Many didn't buy it.

How does the 500 lb bending force younreference compare to your competition and has it been independently tested?
 
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