Paint gelcoat - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-03-2013
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,656
Thanks: 162
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Paint gelcoat

I have a friend with a 70's era Pearson that he is restoring. the hull looks pretty good. The problem is the deck. The gel-coat seems like it was put on too thick and is brittle. It has crazing every 1/8" to 1/4" inch in every direction.
We took a pretty decent random orbital sander to it and it takes hours to do just a couple square feet.
I had him buy a decent porter cable belt-sander and we can do a couple square feet in five minutes. It was still flat and smooth you just have to keep it moving and be careful.
The current thinking is:
1. Sand it down till the gel-coat is so thin it is goes away completely in about 20% of the surface.
2. Use some chemical to really scour the surface. Alcohol was recommended as it is cheap and not to hard on the body. I'm voting for muriatic acid. PS the new issue said the MA enlarges the pours of gel-coat and damages it but really cleans it. In this case that may be a good thing.
3. Coat the whole surface with a thin epoxy to seal the pours and fill in the cracks. I spoke to Jeff-h last week and he recommend a brand. Hopefully he will see this thread and remind me.
4. Sand smooth.
5. Fill and sand as necessary with epoxy and micro-balloons.
6. Awlgrip hi-build
7. Awlgrip finish

Is this about right?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 01-03-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 51
Thanked 72 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Re: Paint gelcoat

I saw a friend epoxy his badly crazed hull bottom with epoxy, it's been 2 years, still looks good.
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

my current "project"!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 01-03-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,604
Thanks: 67
Thanked 178 Times in 174 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Paint gelcoat

Sounds OK.. remember to thoroughly wash/scrub down the cured epoxy with scotchbrite pads and water prior to any sanding, further prep or painting to get rid of the post-cure amine blush that will really mess with any paint.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 01-03-2013
deltaten's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lancaster Co. PA/ North East, MD
Posts: 654
Thanks: 4
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 2
deltaten is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to deltaten
Re: Paint gelcoat

Yer gonna go to the trouble to epoxy over the sanded gel.... then paint??

Why??

Would seem better/faster/less work to delete the paint/Awlgrip and just use gel-coat or colored epoxy (same?). are you using the epoxy as a fairing coat, prior to paint? Is the Awlgrip better than gel; cheaper/faster?
Inquiring minds wanna know
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 01-03-2013
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,656
Thanks: 162
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: Paint gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Sounds OK.. remember to thoroughly wash/scrub down the cured epoxy with scotchbrite pads and water prior to any sanding, further prep or painting to get rid of the post-cure amine blush that will really mess with any paint.
I was thinking of using maas or system3 or west with 207 hardener all I believe have no blush.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 01-03-2013
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,656
Thanks: 162
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: Paint gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
Yer gonna go to the trouble to epoxy over the sanded gel.... then paint??

Why??

Would seem better/faster/less work to delete the paint/Awlgrip and just use gel-coat or colored epoxy (same?). are you using the epoxy as a fairing coat, prior to paint? Is the Awlgrip better than gel; cheaper/faster?
Inquiring minds wanna know
I have not done it myself but smart people have told me that gel-coat goes on very thick and lumpy. It takes so much sanding to get it smooth that it is not worth the trouble unless you have just small patches to do.

I have never heard of anyone being successful with re-gel-coating a boat. By the time you get it smooth you have sanded it all off.
The epoxy is being used as a sealant and base for the paint.
A factory finish in gel is applied to a female mold that is sanded to perfection. When the part is removed from the mold all it needs is polishing.

Gel-coat is better, up to 30 years or more, awlgrip is up to 10 years or so but the gell can only be realistically be used during the build process.

Awlgrip is basically colored epoxy. It is a two part epoxy paint.

Last edited by davidpm; 01-03-2013 at 11:53 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 01-04-2013
poopdeckpappy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,543
Thanks: 23
Thanked 38 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 10
poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about
Re: Paint gelcoat

Sand surface
Awlgrip high build primer
Sand (repeat above if needed )
Awlfair
Sand ( repeat above if needed )
Awlgrip epoxy primer
Sand
Awlgrip epoxy primer
Sand
Top coat ( min 2 coats )

For the non-skid use fine silica sand ( by the sh*t load ) bury the first layer of top coat with sand, 24hrs later vac sand and apply top coat until the desired feel is achived.

It will look awsome, but ya got to use sand liberally
__________________
1978 Tayana 37

Freedom comes when youíre ready to sail away. True freedom comes when you donít have to return


Cut off from the land that bore us, betrayed by the land we find, where the brightest have gone before us and the dullest remain behind, .......but stand to your glasses, steady,.......tis all we have left to prize, raise a cup to the dead already, hurrah for the next that dies
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 01-04-2013
downeast450's Avatar
Tundra Down
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Seal Harbor, Maine
Posts: 1,225
Thanks: 25
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 7
downeast450 is on a distinguished road
Re: Paint gelcoat

My deck is badly crazed and cracked, too. It is impossible to keep clean as all the tiny cracks either accumulate dust and dirt or provide a place for algae to grow. After winter storage it gets scrubbed with a stiff brush to make it look white again. I have followed that with onoff on occasion to get down into the micro cracks. It has a molded in texture, too. Half way through July the algae starts to show to me. There are couple of places where checking has "released" a small chip. I might repair these small spots and I might not. They would get "patched" with an epoxy paste or more gelcoat. I will use a simple rubber mold material to transfer the surface texture from a spot on the deck that is O.K. to the uncured paste repair. This can involve as much detail work as you want to expend. My deck is sound.

I am planning to refinish it. I have experience with coatings on yachts. I wrote and taught the course "Marine and Industrial Coatings" for the Maine State Marine Trades Center ("Boat School") in Eastport, Maine. 15 years of teaching and using a wide variety of epoxies and 2 part polyurethanes including Awlgrip is the experience base I will rely on for my own deck. One of the comments here, that Awlgrip is an epoxy, is not correct. It is a 2-part coating but its chemical properties are quite different from epoxy.

Surface prep is the bottom line for any finish job. Eliminating any chemical "dirt" comes first and last. Depending on the "adhesive" properties of the coating it can require a "tooth" to latch onto or may be capable of attaching to a fairly smooth surface because it is a good "adhesive". "Cohesive" properties are important, too. These are the bonds within the coating that bind it together to form a durable membrane on the substrate. Both 2-part epoxies and 2-part polyurethanes rate high in these qualities with the 2-part polyurethanes (Awlgrip) being better at both. Epoxies wear better. The additives to these resin systems give them the properties that define them as "high build", "primer", "high gloss", etc.

Sanding down all the texture is too much work and I don't feel it is necessary to achieve the fill / seal / finish I am looking for. A careful and safe cleaning of the old surface will suffice. A through wash down followed by "OnOff" and another wash down followed by a solvent cleaning ( An acetone wash followed by an alcohol rinse should be all it requires.) These are dangerous chemicals and a through understanding of their properties is required. They are hazardous and explosive! I was (am?) also a NIOSH trained and certified respirator fit tester and trainer. I have full face respirators and air supplied ones for enclosed spaces. The full face will suffice for this as I will be working outside under a tarp. Eye protection from these harsh chemicals is a must! Nitrile gloves too.

The only coating I intend to use is flattened Awlgrip applied with a solvent resistant roller. It will be thin enough to fill the small cracks and seal things up. I don't want a gloss finish and adding some flattener will improve its build. I will do a section at a time. I will likely apply a second coat to the first while it is still "wet" depending on how much filling the first coat achievies. Mix up the entire batch so it all matches then catalize only enough for the day's work. I expect the high spots to suffer some wear so I will try to match the off white Awlgrip with the gelcoat's color. I could use a thinned epoxy and would if I already had the paint to save the cost of buying Awlgrip. Epoxies tend to discolor as topcoats but their service and abrasion resistance are superior to polyurethanes. Either coating can be used as a primer or a topcoat. Understanding the prep of an epoxy as per Faster's post is essential and makes working with it, where cleaning is required down deep into small cracks, problematic.

If you have the need to remove the old surface and have the resolve, go for it. I am happy with the texture of the old gelcoat non skid. I just want it to look a bit cleaner. Filling the cracks that 30 years of curing and crosslinking cohesive forces have added to my deck's surface is my goal.

Down

Last edited by downeast450; 01-04-2013 at 08:05 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 01-04-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,703
Thanks: 10
Thanked 116 Times in 110 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Paint gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
...Awlgrip is basically colored epoxy. It is a two part epoxy paint.
Is that technically true? Awlgrip is a two part linear polyester urethane, but I'm not sure it qualifies as epoxy?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 01-04-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,703
Thanks: 10
Thanked 116 Times in 110 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Paint gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
Yer gonna go to the trouble to epoxy over the sanded gel.... then paint??......
If its a crazed as described, I'm not sure they have much choice. Re-gel coating an entire deck would be impractical. Epoxy alone would look pretty rough.

Painting is the least of all evils, but underfoot, even Awlgrip is going to yield. Best to stay with very light (white) colors or one that matches the color beneath to best hide the inevitable scratching.

Maybe the more non-skid the owner puts down, the more of the deck can be covered that way. If done well, it can look good and be very practical.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why paint instead of gelcoat? aaronwindward Gear & Maintenance 116 1 Week Ago 04:28 PM
Removing paint from Gelcoat lrak Gear & Maintenance 17 04-15-2014 03:11 PM
Gelcoat or Topsides paint? leogallant Gear & Maintenance 1 09-14-2012 09:41 AM
Is this paint or gelcoat? bamabratsche Gear & Maintenance 8 02-20-2012 05:37 PM
Gelcoat? Paint? dmcleaner General Discussion (sailing related) 8 06-15-2010 11:24 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:55 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.