What's Wrong With This Picture?? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-09-2013
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,539
Thanks: 13
Thanked 149 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
What's Wrong With This Picture??

I took this photo yesterday.... It's an AC panel equipped with a 30A main AC breaker with four 15A branch breakers. It feeds a water heater, battery charger, outlets and one breaker is used as a spare.

Aside from:
Improper grounding (which can't really be entirely seen)
Some improperly non-factory crimped terminals
Sawdust
Improperly mounted bus bar
Corrosion



What's really wrong with it????



First one to get it wins a self applied chest thump, followed by two self applied thumbs up gestures..
coolwhip likes this.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 01-09-2013
erps's Avatar
the pointy end is the bow
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Conner, Washington
Posts: 6,219
Thanks: 2
Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 10
erps will become famous soon enough erps will become famous soon enough
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

I don't believe I've ever seen a green wire going to anything hot before.
__________________
Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Boating for over 25 years, some of them successfully.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 01-09-2013
FarCry's Avatar
Freedom 39
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St Thomas USVI
Posts: 975
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 8
FarCry is on a distinguished road
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

From this photo it's hard to decipher where the incoming feed is etc. It does look like one of the breakers may be jumpered on the right, I believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 01-09-2013
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,539
Thanks: 13
Thanked 149 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

Quote:
Originally Posted by erps View Post
I don't believe I've ever seen a green wire going to anything hot before.
It did not, it just appears that way in the picture....
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 01-09-2013
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,539
Thanks: 13
Thanked 149 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarCry View Post
From this photo it's hard to decipher where the incoming feed is etc. It does look like one of the breakers may be jumpered on the right, I believe.
The AC double pole main breaker is the one closest to the top of the panel oriented vertically.. There are four branch breakers below it running in the opposite orientation..
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 01-09-2013
FarCry's Avatar
Freedom 39
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St Thomas USVI
Posts: 975
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 8
FarCry is on a distinguished road
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
The AC double pole main breaker is the one closest to the top of the panel oriented vertically.. There are four branch breakers below it running in the opposite orientation..
Then it appears that there is an undersized wire (black) coming off of the load side of the main breaker that should be on a branch circuit. There are also numerous 2 wire cables that both conductors are black, one needs to be white and there aren't any grounds in those cables either.

Looking again I see that there are black 110v conductors on the ground buss, another problem...

Last edited by FarCry; 01-09-2013 at 12:03 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 01-09-2013
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,539
Thanks: 13
Thanked 149 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarCry View Post
Then it appears that there is an undersized wire (black) coming off of the load side of the main breaker that should be on a branch circuit.
That is the feed to the LED "Shore Power On" panel indicator light..

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarCry View Post
There are also numerous 2 wire cables that both conductors are black, one needs to be white and there aren't any grounds in those cables either.
I think what you are referring to are the panels indicator light circuits. Both leads on these 120V lights are black, just the way it is...

This panel has shore power on, branch circuit on indicators, and a reverse polarity circuit indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarCry View Post
Looking again I see that there are black 110v conductors on the ground buss, another problem...
There are two "black" wires on the ground/neutral bus one for the panel indicator lights neutrals and one for the reverse polarity light on the Earth/green side. They should have been properly color coded but these are not the main "issue"...

The main issue has still not been caught....
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 01-09-2013
Coquina's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 448
Thanks: 4
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Coquina is on a distinguished road
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

Is the purple arrow on the incoming double pole? They are jumpered together
Attached Thumbnails
What's Wrong With This Picture??-whatwrong.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 01-09-2013
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,539
Thanks: 13
Thanked 149 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquina View Post
Is the purple arrow on the incoming double pole? They are jumpered together
Bingo!!!!! We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



What's wrong with the photo is;

In a marine application the double pole main breaker is intended to interrupt both the NEUTRAL/WHITE wire and the BLACK/HOT wire. The main breaker should not be jumpered like that to break only the BLACK/HOT wire.

Red is also an improper color to be used on this particular panel. Red wire denotes 12V DC + or one leg of a 240V AC system. This is a 120V system and as such only BLACK/HOT, WHITE/NEUTRAL and GREEN/SAFETY GROUND are to be used not red. While not the main problem it is one of the many smaller "issues" ....

The other major issue on this boat was that the AC/DC grounding bond tie was non-existent. The GREEN AC safety ground wire is to be tied to the ships DC grounding bus, it was not.

OK now thump chest and give two thumbs up!!

This is what the panel looked like a few hours later. Notice the difference in how it is wired. The top two wires, white and black are the AC input from shore. Out the bottom left of the breaker the white/neutral leads back to the AC neutral bus for distribution and the black/hot feeds the individual branch circuit breakers out the bottom right of the main AC breaker



If your boat is not wired to interrupt both BLACK/HOT and WHITE/NEUTRAL, in a fault, please get this fixed..
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 01-09-2013
FarCry's Avatar
Freedom 39
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St Thomas USVI
Posts: 975
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 8
FarCry is on a distinguished road
Re: What's Wrong With This Picture??

I suppose that double pole breaker should be breaking the neutral and the hot conductors and not be jumpered.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how do i add a picture TheMadchef General Discussion (sailing related) 2 09-14-2011 11:05 AM
What's wrong with this picture Gene T Gear & Maintenance 23 03-11-2010 10:38 AM
Big picture? Omatako General Discussion (sailing related) 11 01-06-2008 02:35 PM
What is wrong with this picture? tenuki General Discussion (sailing related) 19 06-11-2007 07:38 PM
Newbie: What's wrong with this picture MaineCub Learning to Sail 21 01-07-2007 08:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.