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Life Lines? West marine and crimp?

7K views 38 replies 13 participants last post by  zz4gta 
#1 ·
I have pulled the life lines with the vinyl cover off the boat. I want to go with SS 3/16" 7X19 but where should I have them made? West Marine? Should I buy the cable from West Marine and use the crimp style ends? My pelican hooks look to be in good condition. the photos below were taken with my phone. See if you can tell what I have and if the end can be re-used. Thanks again for your help in advance.

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And the other end is

Photobucket
 
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#2 ·
My local rigger just finished making mine.

I decided that lifelines were a bad place to start experimenting with doing my own crimping, so wanted an experienced rigger to make them.

Your options would seem to be :

1) Get a local rigger to make them (that includes West Marine's rigger)

2) Send them to someone like riggingonly.com

3) Make them yourself out of dyneema

4) Make them yourself out of a swageless system
 
#3 ·
It,

I'd send a PM to knothead -- he's a crackerjack rigger, and he can give you the best advice of anyone around here. He's the SS of SSMR Rigging, located in St Pete/Tampa Bay. He does great work.

Speaking of knotty -- anyone seen or heard from him lately? I just realized I haven't, at least not here.
 
#4 ·
The pelican hooks are dead. They're also inherently the weakest point in the rig so it's a no brainer. Replace everything including turnbuckles. Go with uncoated wire. In your photos, who ever did them, did a bad job - the vinyl never goes all the way the the swage - there should be a 1/8" gap. Do not do it yourself - this is an area where you should not try to save money.

I used riggingonly.com. They're great and fairly priced. Send them old ones and a week or two later shiny new ones will arrive.
 
#6 · (Edited)
You have basically 3 options:


  • Get new ones made up with either coated or un-coated, you cannot reuse swage fittings. No way to swage fittings yourself unless you have a very expensive machine, even then I would not do it.


  • Get a kit that uses swageless fittings, coated or un-coated, likely a bit more than above but the fittings are reusable so you will save money when you replace the wire in 20 years. But will you own the boat that long?


  • Use Dyneema to make your own, cheapest, don't last nearly as long, but fittings can be reused when the Dyneema needs to be replaced. Stays cheapest, and lots of people like the softer feel of the Dyneema and it is lighter if that is important to you.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well I just checked my quote for the lifelines (31ft boat, double lifelines, in 3/16" 316 stainless wire, 2 gates, all new fittings including the gates) - it was about $650 for materials and 4 hours (approx) labour. That's with a rigger doing everything, including removal and installation - sounded very reasonable to me.
 
#9 ·
went to west marine today. They want me to send the lifelines to their rigger in RockHil,SC. West marine rigging 860 Marlin Drive. He said he can build them in 3/16 stainless steel with new pelican hooks and a turnbuckle. Keep in mind there is no step through .He said maybe $100.00 cheaper if we use my old pelican hooks. only problem, He sail 2 weeks to get back. Or I could measure mine and he could build and have the deliver ups in 3 to for days. So Around 400 completed with shipping. The older I get the cheaper I get. ..:cool:
 
#20 ·
This is one of those projects you can do yourself and save as well as have adjustments. I do this myself. If you intend on keeping boats for 20 years or being in them I would learn to do this.

Dennema- lasts 5-7 years, affected by UV and sharp objects. Coated and uncoated lines 7X7 3?16. Coated - no meathooks to shred a jib or someones hands. Uncoated. now ater bertween casuing and wire. Wire can be easily tightened by using the proper fittings

I use coated. I boaugt a cheap swage tool at Home Depot which does the same job as a 250 dollar one from Grainger
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=wire%20swage%20tool&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All...$20

7X7 coated wire...shop on line and go to west marine they should match other wise buy online. You need ap[prox 150 ft at the most = $150
Search Results for*wire swage tool*at The Home Depot

Fittings are the big expense- I use Johnson HAND swage

Draw a diagram.
I used the following

From the bow to wire to the first gate stanchion ( I have gates on both sidesTubular Turnbuckle
Jaw to Hand Crimp Terminal - Check Nut Locking This barrel turnbuckle allows for tensioning when the wire stretches over time

Other side of wire on the other side of stanchion where the gate is
17
LIFE LINE FITTINGS | Regular Duty / Hand Crimp
# Not a true 1/8" terminal (3/16" terminal with sleeve).
Swivel, Interlocking Gate Eye
An interlocking gate eye is used at the opposite end of
the gate hook as a "hinge" for the gate.

Wire from interlocking gate fitting to close gate finished with ( you can buy more expensive)
Tubular Gate Hook- T316
Inexpensive, slender tubular design with a stamped hook.
43⁄4" long from end of body to inside bearing point of hook.

Aft gate stanchion then has a single eye the gate hook attaches to- the gate eyes fitting goes theough the stanchion holes or eyes.
Swivel, Single Gate Eye
A single eye is used on one end of the gate area to attach the gate

Final fitting attached to aft tube sturcture is again an adjustable barrel as in the first one
Tubular Turnbuckle
Jaw to Hand Crimp Terminal - Check Nut Locking
Our most popular life line turnbuckle. Check nut locking. T-316 stainless.

You can figure out the rear ladder gate now.

Here are the pictures and discriptions of the fittings
Johnson Marine Product Detail

Again look on line and get the best price and take to west marine they will match them and carry the JOhnson hand swage fittings''

404 Not Found 4X $25=$100
Johnson Hand-Crimp Tubular Gate Hook - Stainless Steel - Hand-Crimp Lifeline Fittings - Lifeline Hardware - Rigging, Spar & Lifeline Hdwr - Downwind Marine 2 gates = 2X$28 = $56
Johnson Hand-Crimp Lifeline Gate Eye - Threaded - Single - Hand-Crimp Lifeline Fittings - Lifeline Hardware - Rigging, Spar & Lifeline Hdwr - Downwind Marine 2 gates - 2X$21=$42
Johnson Hand-Crimp Lifeline Gate Eyes - Threaded - Interlocking - Hand-Crimp Lifeline Fittings - Lifeline Hardware - Rigging, Spar & Lifeline Hdwr - Downwind Marine 2X$39= $59

Stern Gate
Johnson Hand-Crimp Lifeline Toggle Jaw - T Style - Hand-Crimp Lifeline Fittings - Lifeline Hardware - Rigging, Spar & Lifeline Hdwr - Downwind Marine $17
Johnson Hand-Crimp Tubular Gate Hook - Stainless Steel - Hand-Crimp Lifeline Fittings - Lifeline Hardware - Rigging, Spar & Lifeline Hdwr - Downwind Marine $28

Total price in Fittings with two gates = $302 One gate=$250
Total price 2 gates = $250 +$20+$150 = $420

It will take you about 6 hours to do and you have nice ADJUSTABLE first class lifelines and you have a skill, which when you cruise is invaluable as you will want to take some lifeline with you. BTW do not use this tool to swage any standing rigging. They should be machine done

Feel free to PM or contact me for more info

Dave
 
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#24 ·
Stumble is 100% correct as thats where water will collect so you cant see the weak points and there even looks like a tinge of rust near them on the wire.

If they are over 10 years old ( And they look like the OE on my C&C when I bought it 15 years ago)....change them for safeties sake.

dave
 
#25 ·
Is that a crack in the end of the swage fitting in the second picture?

My experience is like others have said. They rust inside the swage fitting and look fine until one day they break right where the wire leaves the swage.

BTW, coated wire lifelines aren't allowed for racing anymore.
 
#28 ·
Is that a crack in the end of the sewage fitting in the second picture?

My experience is like others have said. They rust inside the sewage fitting and look fine until one day they break right where the wire leaves the sewage.

BTW, coated wire lifelines aren't allowed for racing anymore.
When I'm done there will be no coating left.

There is no cracks in the fittings at all . This stuff is 3/16 & X 19 SS wire. If it looks good with no cracks can it not be reused? It sounds like the conciseness is to throw it out whither its good or not? The ends will be cut off for the installation of turn buckles and a complete inspection of the wire at the fitting can be done.
Ya'll have almost convinced me to toss them out and use rope.
Chef2sail, your write up below makes me think I can do it and do all 4 life lines for under 200. I'm just not clear on the turn buckles to use and how to connect the thimble to the bow and stern pulpit. they both have welded rings that would be a chaffing issue for rope.
 
#26 ·
Chef2sail,

I just got a chance to read the articles you posted. While I generally agree with the one from PS, the article from the Rigging Company is a little prejudice in my opinion. It may be because they have a vested intered in wire lifelines, but typical installed cost for dyneema lifelines are generally much less than for wire.

Generally, though not always, dyneema lifelines are installed with no hardware, or at most one gate at either end. When designed this way a dyneema lifeline system will run about $120 for a 30' boat. With each gate adding about $150. This is because the cost of the fittings far exceed the rest of the cost of materials.

My typical lifeline instal is nothing more than an eye splice on one end that is ring hitched to the front bowsprit, and an eye splice with a sailmakers thimble at the other end. I do tend to oversize the line just because I think it is more comfortable, so my worksheet looks like:

1) leingth of lifeline plus 3' (extra for splicing) * $1.25 (cost of the line)
2) plus $6.00 (cost of the thimble)
3) plus 5' * $.40 (cost of lashing line)


I should point out that I do not install these professionally and don't work as a rigger. I have just swapped over a number of friends boats, and my own to dyneema.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Chef2sail,

My typical lifeline instal is nothing more than an eye splice on one end that is ring hitched to the front bowsprit, and an eye splice with a sail-makers thimble at the other end. I have just swapped over a number of friends boats, and my own to dyneema.
I would love to see the push pulpit connection? there is a welded ring on mine. Do you loop it and splice it there ? or add something. How do you connect the thimble to the welded ring on the pulpet?
Sorry i'm new at this

:worthless:
 
#31 ·
The wire is not the expensive part...its the fittings. The barrels are the way to pull in the slack as the wire stretches. You have 4.....2 in the two long rubs, both attached at the welded rings with the toggle at the bow, and 2 in the stern attached to the welded ringsdon the stern tubbing.

Also in the winter i let them go slack.
 
#32 ·
I use stainless 1 1/4 inch OD boiler tubing, 34 inches off the decks. Once you have cruised with solid lifelines you will never go back to wire.On a fibreglass boat it drastically reduces the loads and movement on the stanchion bases, drastically reducing the chances of leaks there.
For the lower lifeline nothing beats 1/4 inch 1x19 stainless rigging wire.
 
#34 ·
I placed an order today with Go2Marine for 66 feet of amsteel X 3/16 at $0.95 then I ordered 66 Feet of Amsteel Blue X 1/8 at $0.46 I need to find the pelocan hooks with splice ends. I also ordered the 4 thinbles total so far $86.49 Anybody know were to get 2 pelican hooks with splice ends on them let me k now.

Thanx
 
#38 ·
I ordered thimble for splicing to the bow. and Rope from Go2Marine. So here is how it was paid out.

The rope I got for
$o.46 for the 1/8 66 feet
then $0.93 for the 3/16 Dyneema
4 Thimbles
For a total at Go2Marine with shipping $86.49
complete new lifelines $120.00
$120.00 bucks for the 2 with 2 day air shippin 206.49

I will do the splicing my self. There are some good utube examples. Iam just not sure how to get it real tight onto the thimbles.
Thanks for all of your advice It helps NOOBS like make better choices.
I will have photos in a few days.
Here is a short video of me there today at the boat.
 
#39 ·
Good onya. 3 hours to clear vinyl off old lifelines doesn't sound like fun. You could've had the new stuff installed in that amount of time.

Couple things,
1) make sure your bury is 72x the diameter of the line. That's 13.5" for the 3/16" and 9" for the 1/8" stuff.
2) be sure to do a proper gradual taper. The splice will first fail at the end of the taper.

Gates are nice, but unless there's a double set of lifelines, I usually just lash in place and step over the line.
 
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