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  #111  
Old 02-02-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Wow lots of good input here. You all are making me think this one through. I am thinking to give it a few more days of Kroil, heat, and gentle muscle. If that does not work I am thinking split the tube, cut out the stuffing box, drop and clean up shaft, order the right box/bearing (probably from Edson) and put it all back together with some big hose clamps to hold tube and then glass over the whole thing. Thanks all.
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  #112  
Old 02-06-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Well some real progress today... sort of. The day started great. Got to the boat and began wiggling the rudder from below. Suddenly I noticed it was walking down out of the boat a bit. So some more wiggling eventually brought the whole rudder out of the boat. So that part is done. However, as I looked down in the hull at the now rudder tube, the box/bearing was still stuck on the top of the tube (see picture). And it is stuck fast. I suspect the aluminum box/bearing and SS shaft have galled big time. So what now? I heated it, Kroiled it, and wrenched it but no luck. I think I am at the point where the rudder tube needs to come out. So I worked on the 4 bolts holding the rube to the hull. They came apart easy enough but two of them the bolt spun with the nut. Looking outside (see picture) I noticed indication on outside of the hull of all four bolts. Anyway two came off form inside and two are spinning. I am wondering do I now knock those bolts out through the hull to release the tube?

The tube from below appears to be SS with some sort of fiber inner bearing. That inner bearing appears to be either fiberglass or some sort of plastic. Should that all just come out so I can get back to bear hull with 4 bolt holes and one large rudder tube hole that will let me start all over with some other sort of fix? Anyone thinking this is becoming a job for a boatyard to do? My skills are somewhat limited (as is my money) and I do not want to do anything that could endanger later. So far I am fine with the level of skill required but this next step which could end up leaving holes in the hull feels like a different animal. Whatcha think??? Thanks all. See photos for better understanding.
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Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-today-1.jpg   Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-today-2.jpg   Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-today-3.jpg   Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-today-4.jpg  
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  #113  
Old 02-06-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Step 1 for me would be mfr a template to where the current hole is so any cutting and replacement will put the rudder right back true to it's current location and angle. A piece of pipe mounted to a thin plywood form would allow you to mark the outline of the plywood form. This jig would allow you to test the new tube alignment. If you make the jig also have a removable sleeve/tube you'll be able to put it into the new tube to represent the rudder shaft when mounting the new tube.
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  #114  
Old 02-06-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

I'd get rid of the metal tube and replace it with a glass tube thoroughly glassed and gusseted to the hull on the inside. If the quadrant height is far enough above the waterline you wouldn't even have to have a stuffing box - my Columbia 43 didn't - the quadrant bolted to the underside of the cockpit and the tube came right up to the bottom of the quadrant. There was a top bearing and emergency tiller attachment flush with the cockpit sole. A very simple installation. If the tube is kept as tight as possible without interference to the shaft, even in the worst possible conditions, only a very minor amount of water could squeeze its way into the boat. Essentially the entire tube becomes a bushing surface for the shaft instead of it being supported merely at the ends.

If you can find some manufactured glass tube with the right I/D to fit your shaft, buy a piece long enough and glass it in. If you can't find the right I/D, make your own, right on the shaft as I described earlier in this thread.
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  #115  
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

I think I'd be considering looking for an appropriate ID thick-walled fiberglass tube or pipe, remove the original altogether and fiberglass/epoxy the new tube in place with substantial gussets... something like this:



If you can't find the right tube diameter you could make your own as described by SloopJonB previously.. and do the same.

EDIT:... I see SJB and I are on the same page!!!
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  #116  
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

It's imbedded for sure. I'd just dig it out start with new or home made tube that is longer the top of the post goes through the deck right? So lateral movement is not a big issue.
Even as a fist time user you will do very well with epoxy and glass.. Some people use "kitty hair" which is glass strands in resin hardened with catalyst (not epoxy.) cutless bearing struts are embedded essentially the same way.

Here's a thread by someone that did the same thing your facing.
http://www.myheap.com/1970-pearson-2...-bushings.html
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Last edited by deniseO30; 02-06-2013 at 07:49 PM.
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  #117  
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
I think I'd be considering looking for an appropriate ID thick-walled fiberglass tube or pipe, remove the original altogether and fiberglass/epoxy the new tube in place with substantial gussets... something like this:



If you can't find the right tube diameter you could make your own as described by SloopJonB previously.. and do the same.

EDIT:... I see SJB and I are on the same page!!!
Great pic Faster - that's EXACTLY what I meant. I got that gusset idea from New Orleans Marine - it was one of the details they did that other builders omitted - it adds a bunch of strength to a spade installation.
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Last edited by SloopJonB; 02-06-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Great pic Faster - that's EXACTLY what I meant. I got that gusset idea from New Orleans Marine - it was one of the details they did that other builders omitted - it adds a bunch of strength to a spade installation.
Thanks....... If I hadn't taken the time to find that shot I'd have beaten you to the punch!
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  #119  
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

A competent mechanic can extract the bushing... or just glass in a new tube... either way, you are on your way to completion of the odyssey.
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  #120  
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

So by consensus it sounds like the old tube should come out. My guess is that means removing the four bolts that hold it to the hull which means loosening inside nuts and punching the bolts back out through the hull and patching afterwards. The tube itself is the stainless piece visible in the underneath photo. I suppose that will just somehow release from the hull. With it out I then have the options of (1) finding and fitting a new tube with gussets or (2) having the bearing removed mechanically and putting the tube back in complete with new box and packing.

To be honest, I really don't like the idea of losing the tube because it holds the bottom bearing nicely. Pulling the rudder tube will totally change where the shaft goes through the hull. Currently, everything coming through the bottom of the hull is purpose built for that shaft and still looks in very good condition. As it is if I slide the rudder shaft back up in through the quadrant and out the top, the top and bottom are held tightly by nylon bearings still in very good condition. If I could find a way to cut the old box flush with the top of the tube and create a water tight seal right there I would do that. Maybe sand the ID of the old box to clean it up real well boring it slightly in the process so the rudder turns easily and fit like a gaiter above it. Probably crazy thinking. I just wish there was a way to retain both original ends but do something with the top of the tube where the old (now beat up) box was. From what I can see, the old, now destroyed box was simply a water-tight seal, the top and bottom bearings created the firmness in the shaft. I am guessing that the top of the tube is right at water line. I mean I can see the wisdom of starting all over but the work involved sounds somewhat daunting.

BTW, the white junk in my hand is what I pulled out of the tube once the shaft was removed. Any idea what this is? I am guessing the inside of the tube between the bottom bearing and the old box had about 3/8" of this on side walls all the way around. Could it be some old packing that had completely disintegrated?

Thanks! You all really are helping. I need some sleep. The roller coaster of seeing the shaft slide out (yippee!) only to reveal yet another hill to climb (c'mon!) has left me tired today. But I do have time tomorrow to fight on... then Friday starts a 5 day cruise to the Bahamas. Anyone wanna come live in my house for five days and fix my boat while I am gone? :-)

BTW, I added what is a clearer picture of what the box/tube looks like now...
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