Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28 - Page 13 - SailNet Community
 23Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #121 of Old 02-06-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,337
Thanks: 101
Thanked 303 Times in 293 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Can you get your trusty sawzall down the tube now and slit that garbage at the top without damaging the lower bushing? I'm thinking if you cut a couple of slots vertically down to the tube wall you may relieve some pressure and then be able to physically remove the two pieces.. at least you'll have some limited space for movement and it may release.

Another possibility, though, if you're ultimately unsuccessful in removing that last bit, would be to cut the existing tube below that seal, then sleeve and extend the existing tube to where you need it.

That said, I do think you're making a bit too much of the job of replacing the tube.. as far as DIY glasswork project I think that's a fairly simple, straightforward task, esp if you can find an appropriate section of pipe or tube for the job. It would be easy to slip a temporary stock up there to maintain the alignment as you install the tube. You'd also avoid any future issues with whatever seized things up in the first place. You could also incorporate a socket for a new lower bushing that might be more easily replaceable in the future..

At any rate you're many steps closer to a solution than when you started... best of luck!

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of Old 02-06-2013
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,325
Thanks: 59
Thanked 65 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
BTW, the white junk in my hand is what I pulled out of the tube once the shaft was removed. Any idea what this is? I am guessing the inside of the tube between the bottom bearing and the old box had about 3/8" of this on side walls all the way around. Could it be some old packing that had completely disintegrated?
That mush looks like wet, thick aluminium oxide. I've never seen any type of packing that could end up looking like that. Is your rudder shaft aluminium by any chance?

I agree with Faster - I think you're making too much of what the job would be to glass in a new tube. Glass & epoxy work is quite simple albeit sticky & itchy. It is a skill you are almost certain to need during your boat ownership years. By the time you have done this you'll be fairly expert - it really is about that straightforward.

Trying to rebuild what you have looks like a LOT more work and expense to me and what you'd end up with wouldn't be as good - more complex, more expensive, not as strong and susceptible to the same failure down the road.

Your setup is unlike anything I've seen in a sailboat while what we describe is very standard practice and has been for decades.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #123 of Old 02-07-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 844
Thanks: 8
Thanked 63 Times in 58 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

I would like to see what the rudder / rudder shaft looks like after taking it out.
Have any pictures to post
knuterikt is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #124 of Old 02-07-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
rbyham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 516
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Here is a shaft picture.

Also, if I glass in a new tube how is the top sealed? Ending at the quadrant would have it open above the water line so can it be open or am I needing to plan for a new stuffing box as well?

And with a new tube what actually holds the rudder up? The only thru-shaft would be the quadrant bolt. Originally there was a collar type piece with two allen headed screws one on each side that rode about the orig stuffing box and I assume functioned as a vertical hold on the shaft.
Attached Thumbnails
Today 6.jpg  
rbyham is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #125 of Old 02-07-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,337
Thanks: 101
Thanked 303 Times in 293 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

I think if the tube ends as high as you can get away with, the pressure on any seal there would be quite minimal - it shouldn't take too much .. Some kind of Oring might do.

As far as holding the rudder up I'd reinstall/create a pinned collar at deck level.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #126 of Old 02-07-2013
Oday30!
 
deniseO30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 6,860
Thanks: 55
Thanked 121 Times in 110 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Well.. if it's not been said... CONGRATULATIONS ON GETTING IT FREE!
Faster and SloopJonB like this.

Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My last project!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My boat is sold!
deniseO30 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #127 of Old 02-07-2013
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,325
Thanks: 59
Thanked 65 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
Here is a shaft picture.

Also, if I glass in a new tube how is the top sealed? Ending at the quadrant would have it open above the water line so can it be open or am I needing to plan for a new stuffing box as well?

And with a new tube what actually holds the rudder up? The only thru-shaft would be the quadrant bolt. Originally there was a collar type piece with two allen headed screws one on each side that rode about the orig stuffing box and I assume functioned as a vertical hold on the shaft.
If the shaft goes high enough above the waterline you don't really need to worry about a seal. My Col 43 didn't have one and there was no evidence that water had ever intruded. The quadrant bolt and the tillerhead fitting will hang it securely. Put a ring of UHMWP or Delrin on top of the tube as a thrust surface for the quadrant and just let the rudder hang.

P.S. that pic appears to confirm my suspicion that the white mush is aluminium oxide. Is the rudder shaft aluminium?

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.

Last edited by SloopJonB; 02-07-2013 at 01:21 PM.
SloopJonB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #128 of Old 02-07-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
rbyham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 516
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

I have not determined the make-up of the rudder but my best guess at present is it is aluminum. So I think the guess at aluminum oxide is probably a good one. But I was surprised at how gooped up it was in there. I would say a full 4" of the tube all the way around at 3/8" deep was that junk.

In terms of height above water line, my measurements show a max of about 4" above water line for new tube. Any higher and I am running into the quadrant. My concerns are things like heeling and how that might impact.
rbyham is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #129 of Old 02-07-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
rbyham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 516
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
Well.. if it's not been said... CONGRATULATIONS ON GETTING IT FREE!
Thanks Denise. Yes that felt great!
rbyham is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #130 of Old 02-07-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 844
Thanks: 8
Thanked 63 Times in 58 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
I have not determined the make-up of the rudder but my best guess at present is it is aluminum. So I think the guess at aluminum oxide is probably a good one. But I was surprised at how gooped up it was in there. I would say a full 4" of the tube all the way around at 3/8" deep was that junk.
You must check the lower bearing surface of the shaft, if it is uneven you must find a fix - one option is to add a sleeve, read more here: Jefa stainless steel and aluminium sleeves

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
In terms of height above water line, my measurements show a max of about 4" above water line for new tube. Any higher and I am running into the quadrant. My concerns are things like heeling and how that might impact.
I suggest you read this about sealing Sealing systems
knuterikt is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cat 27 rudder shaft bushings harl Catalina 2 04-02-2012 12:56 AM
CS 36T rudder shaft log cptjak CS Yachts 1 08-29-2011 09:29 PM
Rudder shaft packing on a 34 johnharch Pacific Seacraft 28 12-03-2010 09:24 PM
Rudder Shaft Material hutch5151 Gear & Maintenance 6 11-05-2008 09:46 AM
Rudder Shaft Issues ranes Islander 0 11-03-2008 07:55 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome