Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28 - Page 16 - SailNet Community
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post #151 of 196 Old 02-14-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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On inspection of the mast I noticed the spreader joints wrapped in some sort of white tape over top of what might be rubber boots. The tape shows wear and cracking and the rubber boots on the center connection appear torn underneath. What are these and should these be replaced before launch? My plan is to launch and do basic centering/rake of mast but to allow 4-5 days before tuning rigging. It is my understanding that having been on the hard for so long it will take the boat a few days to return to natural shape. See photos for details on spreader question.
Peel all that crap off and hope there's only dirt and not corrosion underneath. Those spreader boots should never be taped up at the bottom or they can't drain and crap collects inside. Great balls of rigging tape is a poor idea as well - some sort of attempt to create a baggywrinkle effect I guess.

If the boots are reusable you will see moulded in "troughs" which is where they are supposed to be wrapped with tape to retain them - a couple of turns, not a whole roll of tape on each boot!

P.S. - their purpose is chafe protection.
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post #152 of 196 Old 02-15-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

The saga continues. Well I guess many here have been right in advising me to remove the original rudder tube and start from scratch. A brother in the marina business called today and advised I take the original tube out. His reasoning was that after hammering, heating, and otherwise abusing the rudder tube that it was not longer well bedded and would likely leak even after installing a new seal. So I went at the rudder tube today and it actually came out quite easily, a clear indicator that it would have leaked if left in.

So I am now at a point where the whole rudder tube assembly will be rebuilt from hull up. Here is my question. I stopped on way home tonight at a local marine supply and they suggested the Buck Algonquin catalog which I checked upon getting home. It looks like they have what I need. This would seem to be it: Item # 00rp200a, Bronze Rudder Ports - Outside Mount - Square Flange on Buck Algonquin

The only question I have relates to the BA port being an outside mount but my original was inside. I would need to use the matching backing plates on the outside of the hull and possibly drill new holes for 1/2" stainless thru bolts but I would think setting this all in a good bed of Boat Life should work. What is the prevailing opinion here?

Lastly is anyone else surprised to see my hull thickness at about 3/8"? I had been told that these 60's era boats would have an inch or more of glass in the hull.
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Tube 1.jpg   Tube 2.jpg   Tube 3.jpg   Tube 4.jpg   Tube 5.jpg  

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post #153 of 196 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Hull gets thick down lower in the boat or should be. Don't fret.. How high is the water line in reference to the quadrant?

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post #154 of 196 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

how's bout this with you building a glass tube and epoxy in place. I think I've see that set up in a hunter 33. not sure.
Item # 00pb200, Bronze Packing Boxes - Self Aligning - Spud Type - Right Hand Thread on Buck Algonquin

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post #155 of 196 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Make it easy on yourself and simply glass & epoxy in a fiberglass tube and then get one of those bellows type seals you talked about earlier. It'll be cheaper and easier and more secure and more leakproof and more conventional practice etc. etc.

That external mount fitting looks like it's intended for fishboats or something. I wouldn't want my rudder tube depending on caulking to keep the sea out - way too much repetitive lateral force on it.

As to your hull thickness - you have now officially learned the facts of old fiberglass boats. The "inch thick" small boats of that era are fish stories and old wives tales. They DID know what they were doing back then and all the stories about them using wooden boat scantlings and so forth because "they didn't know the material" are all a bunch of hooey. The hull of my 1970 Columbia 43 was two 1/4" skins of glass with 1/2" balsa between. It was 2" thick in the very bottom where the keel attached but not elsewhere.

If you don't believe me, read "Heart of Glass" by Daniel Spurr.

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post #156 of 196 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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The saga continues.......
The linked tubes you posted include a stuffing box seal, so that works as long as your 'slightly under' 2" shaft won't have excessive clearance, and that the seal will contact/seal as designed ( I expect the seal will work OK)

By the look of them, too, no reason why you couldn't mount it 'inside' just like your old one was.. they look like essentially the same setup.

Building your own tube and going with Denise's hose coupling stuffing box units may/may not work out less expensive, you'll have to do some checking on prices. Is the 5" height right for you for getting above the waterline and leaving room for the quadrant?

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post #157 of 196 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Any further idea's on repairing a frozen Rudder post, I have the exact same problem and the DW40 trick does not seem to be working after a weeks soaking. It's a stainless steel shaft and does move under pressure, however I am unable to see how I can remove the rudder and shaft ??? any further idea's
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post #158 of 196 Old 02-15-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

OTR... I am far from an expert but my recent experience left me thinking that Kroils is the best way to go for penetrating oil. General opinion among folks here is not real high on WD40. Kroils only available online and it ain't cheap. But it did break my seriously frozen rudder up. That and I used sandwiched 8' 2x4s sandwiched on each side of the rudder to give me leverage in manipulating it.
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Before (or while) waiting for a mail order of Kroil, try a 50/50 mix of ATF & acetone.

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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Hows about this? I clean up the original tube/port and rebed it in Boat Life, lock it down mechanically with the 4 ss 1/2" bolts and then glass it in from inside. Then I could add any number of spud type seals to the top of the rudder tube to create the seal. The original tube/port would clean up fine and that original bronze bearing is as good as new.
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