Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28 - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

take some photos first! I'd think about a pipe wrench on the rudder shaft to give you leverage.. you don't want to use the wheel and cable for that. and you really don't want to be twisting on the rudder because the foam inside will loosen from the inside. "Kroil" is a really good penetrating product.

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post #12 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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Originally Posted by PorFin View Post
Since it has a stuffing box, I'd belay the vinegar for now.

Try loosening the stuffing box packing nut first.
I tend to agree with you about belaying the use of vinegar, however mild its effect might be.

Since it is a mild acid it can help remove scale and rust that may have built up, but it certainly does not have to be the first course of action.

Belay the forcing the rudder for now and work on the stuffing box. For that you should use PB Blaster to soak the nuts (WD 40 not so much) and get a pair of wrenches you can use to exert force in the space provided.

Using brute force on most things boat related (except plumbing and engine related wrench work) can cause unintended consequences (eg., more to fix later).

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post #13 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

This is a job for Kroil. Don't waste your time with WD40 or the like. Let it soak for days and keep adding more. Use some heat lamps. Maybe even order a gallon of Kroil and heat some up in a sauce pan before pouring it in (it is flammable so be careful).

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post #14 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
take some photos first! I'd think about a pipe wrench on the rudder shaft to give you leverage.. you don't want to use the wheel and cable for that. and you really don't want to be twisting on the rudder because the foam inside will loosen from the inside. "Kroil" is a really good penetrating product.
I don't know the "Kroil" stuff - worth a try.

If you take more photos from the inside we can se what you see
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post #15 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Let me add my voice to the "Kroil Chorus".

This stuff is incredible. Better, far better than WD-40, Liquid Wrench, or PBlaster. It may not work immediately, but it WILL work.

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post #16 of 196 Old 01-18-2013 Thread Starter
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Thanks for folks. Will try the kroil. Being a noob I have to ask where to buy? Is that a Walmart item? Hoping to get some pix up today of new to me boat.

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post #17 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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The only potentially serious problem to be addressed is a frozen rudder. Using the wheel above and putting pressure on rudder below because she is on the hard, the rudder refuses to move at all. ...The rudder neither turns nor can it be dropped. Thanks.
Well, this brings back nightmares! I had a similar experience with my 1983 Nonsuch 26, also built by Hinterhoeller. I have no idea whether your boat is constructed the same way mine was, but I'll give you the short version of my experience.

Wheel was getting harder and harder to turn. One day I came back to the boat (in the water) and the wheel was completely frozen. I figured the rudder shaft needed more grease, so I used the emergency tiller to "break free" the rudder and added grease. Seemed to work ok after that and I sailed the rest of the season. It was only I pulled the boat for the season I found out what the real problem was.

The rudder shaft goes throught a fiberglass tube called the rudder log. The log is held upright by three plywood struts and surrounded by fiberglass tabbing. Where the tube meets the hull there is caulk.

In my case, the log had completely seized on the rudder shaft. When I "broke free" the rudder what actually happened is that I broke the connections between the log and the plywood and fiberglass supports. Rather than the rudder shaft spinning freely inside the log, the shaft and log were spinning as a unit inside of the fiberglass tabbing. When I added grease, it only went between the log and the tabbing.

The fix: Contractor had to drop the rudder, rudder shaft, and log as a single unit out of the boat. They had to use a press to get the shaft out of the log. Because of grease contamination, they had to tear down and rebuild the plywood supports and tabbing.

It's now better than it was when it was new. But it wasn't an easy or cheap fix.

I hope that your problem is different and can be resolved with much less effort.
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post #18 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Another vote for let it soak...I wouldn't force it from below, you could cause some real damage.
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post #19 of 196 Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
Thanks for folks. Will try the kroil. Being a noob I have to ask where to buy? Is that a Walmart item? Hoping to get some pix up today of new to me boat.
Unfortunately, you can only buy Kroil online.

Penetrating-Lubricating Oils

The good news is, they sell it in aerosol form and other good products as well. Go to the site, look over the products, and find the one that you think best applies to your situation.

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post #20 of 196 Old 01-18-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

I found PB Buster available locally today so I have soaked her down real good. Still frozen but I also got pictures. See attached. I had a mobile marine tech on board as well to get his opinion. He could not see anything obvious but is willing to tackle it step by step. He did not think the gland thing could create enough grip to freeze the rudder. I think he suspects it is bent but I think that unlikely. My reasoning is that the seller has owned and sailed it extensively since 2000 and never had any grounding mishaps. The seller was as surprised as I to discover it frozen the day before we struck a deal. Anyway, see the pics.

Jiminri that is a sad story and one I hope does not come to pass here. Looking at the photos I see no plywood struts nor tabbing so I am guessing this is a different setup. I guess only time will tell. Thanks all... Please note that the large run at the base of the orange "gland" is a ring clamp loosened already. There were 4 ring clamps on that gland piece but have been removed over the past several days as the seller who is quite handy made some last ditch attempts to rectify before we sealed the deal. I am still feeling good about the deal and confident we will see this one through but any and all feedback/guidance will be much appreciated. Please note that brute force which is normally my forte has been avoided. But it was fun stuffing my 6'2" 225lb frame into the port lazarette upside down to assess the situation and take the photos. Not sure I was build to go below ground on boats. The admiral thought it hilarious that she had to pull me out by my belt.
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Rudder 2.jpg   Rudder 1.jpg  
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