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  #21  
Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

My friend with a Nonsuch 26 had the same problem - stiff to turn, plywood webbing and tabbing letting go. Turns out it was extremely over greased (had a hose run to threaded fitting on tube and pumped with grease gun, not the way it was designed, builder-installed grease cup had been removed to make it 'convenient'). Had yard remove rudder, totally degrease tube, break out webbing and tabbing, realign stock in tube, then laminate in new plywood webbing - problem solved. It was so bad the grease was penetrating between the hull and the tabbing.

Same builder, different era, BUT maybe the same problem?
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Old 01-18-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
I found PB Buster available locally today so I have soaked her down real good.
Rbyham--I received the information that follows below in an email. I cannot vouch for the article, but at least one of the members of our Nonsuch group used the home brew mixture with good success. I had not heard of your boat before, but I googled it and it looks great. I've been really impressed with the build quality on my Hinterhoeller Nonsuch(es). I'm sure you'll be pleased and have fun.

"Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various penetrating
oils. The magazine reports they tested these products for "break out
"torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A subjective test was made of popular
penetrating oils, with the unit of merit being the torque required to
remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" bolt.
Average torque load to loosen nut:
No Oil used ........................516 foot pounds
WD-40 ..................... ........238 foot pounds
PB Blaster .........................214 foot pounds
Liquid Wrench ......................127 foot pounds
Kano Kroil .........................106 foot pounds
ATF/Acetone mix...................... 53 foot pounds

The ATF/Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50/50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any
commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with
equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as
Kroil for 20% of the price.
ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a
50/50 mix. ATF = Any type of Automatic Transmission Fluid
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

The Kroil is on order and Blaster is on it now. I will go over to the boat today and give her a good shot of the Acetone/ATF home brew mentioned above. Thanks all. If the treatments don't get it, I am turning this one over to the pros. As a beginner I want critical parts like rudder, mast, rigging to be set by pros in the hope that builds in an added safety level. But if anyone has other ideas I am all ears. Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Is there a shaft lock on the pedestal?
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Old 01-19-2013
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There is a knob on the Edson to lock the wheel. is that what you mean? That is loose and the wheel turns freely until the rudder seems to resist. Looking below while bumping the wheel, all cables and pulleys appear to be live as they move until hitting rudder resistance.
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Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

RBY, , What do you think the pros are going to do? Same things you are trying! It's going to be VERY expensive for sure...You searched and searched for a nearly free boat because of cost.. It really is time for you to know about your boat and how it all works. Not much can't be learned if you take the time to self educate.

Has anyone suggested heating the rudder tube? NOT with open flame.
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Last edited by deniseO30; 01-19-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Thanks Denise... I hear you on needing to learn the boat. I do want to do that. My background is fairly strong in RVs so understanding most of the systems is something I already have. But the specifically nautical pieces (rigging, mast, steering/rudder) are all new. But I see the logic in your thoughts. I will see how it goes... Heating has been suggested from the standpoint of heating the Kroil (which I know is flammable). Are you thinking like hair dryer or heat gun? Not a bad idea. Unfortunately the yard I am in has no elec or water.
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Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Heat gun and portable generator? Is there any give at all in the rudder shaft up down even? Photos would help us help you for sure on this.
If it has a fiberglass tube between the deck and hull. or from the hull up to the packing gland.. maybe you could spilt the tube with a small right angle saw wheel then spread the slot with something like a wedge, would be easier then ripping out the tube.
A Dremel tool may be too light for the task. Assuming.. this is the problem.. you need to crawl in there! I have in my boat to drop the rudder.. LOL
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Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Can you access the top end of the rudder shaft? I'm thinking loosen everything on the shaft - quadrant etc. then hold a piece of pipe of the same diameter as the shaft on the top end and some "firm" taps with a big dead blow hammer.
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  #30  
Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

I did get a little deeper into the rudder shaft issue today. I have all kinds of penetrating fluids working for me. I believe the top “bushing” is free as fluids pretty much drip right through onto the quadrant. But the bottom/hull seal appears to be a different story. You can see in the pictures that the bottom seal was originally a packing gland wrapped by the orange colored hose. Above that is the bottom side of a flange in which I believe packing rope got sandwiched by a second flange that slid down from above and bolted to the lower still visible flange. This made the watertight seal. Unfortunately the upper flange snapped into three pieces upon removal.

Regardless, with the upper part of the seal now broken it would appear I am either looking at finding the original flange (where does one order these things?) or upgrading the whole thing with an updated rudder seal. Hopefully I could find a replacement seal that fit the bolt pattern on the hull thus avoiding having to rework the hull too. Either way I am looking at dropping the rudder in order to get the flange or new seal in place. So I still have to deal with whatever is frozen in order to drop the shaft.

I am not discouraged. I was prepared for this kind of job and had already adjusted the purchase price. Plus there is nothing like hanging upside down in a lazarette for 4 hours to help one learn one’s new boat.

I am still attracted to the idea of heat. That might loosen things. Also I can access the top of the rudder post yes. However, I think there is a pin in the top of the shaft somewhere holding it all up. I am having trouble locating the pin. Once located and removed I may give her a few gentle taps.

See photos for details.

Rick
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Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-rudder-1.jpg   Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-20130119_154256_resized.jpg   Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-20130119_154312_resized.jpg   Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28-20130119_154339_resized.jpg  
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