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post #31 of 196 Old 01-19-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Looks like yours is Edson stuff Rudder Post Stuffing Box/Bearing : Edson Marine Store


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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Yep I think ya nailed it. So now how to dig what is left of the old stuffing box out of the tubing? I think digging that out of the tubing will free the shaft as well. Probably the stuffing box/bearing is what is seized. Maybe some heat? :-) Feels like lots of corrosion in there. But identifying parts is a big help. Thanks.

Looks like the lower part of the stuffing box on mine was held to the tubing using some sort of adhesive inside the rubber wrap/hose (orange thing). On the Edson site it appears they are now recommending that be glassed instead of the hose setup. Is that the way you see/read it?

Thanks D...
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post #33 of 196 Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
I did get a little deeper into the rudder shaft issue today. I have all kinds of penetrating fluids working for me. I believe the top “bushing” is free as fluids pretty much drip right through onto the quadrant. But the bottom/hull seal appears to be a different story. You can see in the pictures that the bottom seal was originally a packing gland wrapped by the orange colored hose. Above that is the bottom side of a flange in which I believe packing rope got sandwiched by a second flange that slid down from above and bolted to the lower still visible flange. This made the watertight seal. Unfortunately the upper flange snapped into three pieces upon removal.
Are you able to dig out the "packing rope" it would make it easiser for the oil's you are using to go further down.

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Regardless, with the upper part of the seal now broken it would appear I am either looking at finding the original flange (where does one order these things?) or upgrading the whole thing with an updated rudder seal. Hopefully I could find a replacement seal that fit the bolt pattern on the hull thus avoiding having to rework the hull too. Either way I am looking at dropping the rudder in order to get the flange or new seal in place. So I still have to deal with whatever is frozen in order to drop the shaft.

I am not discouraged. I was prepared for this kind of job and had already adjusted the purchase price. Plus there is nothing like hanging upside down in a lazarette for 4 hours to help one learn one’s new boat.

I am still attracted to the idea of heat. That might loosen things. Also I can access the top of the rudder post yes. However, I think there is a pin in the top of the shaft somewhere holding it all up. I am having trouble locating the pin. Once located and removed I may give her a few gentle taps.

See photos for details.

Rick
You must drop the ruder so you can inspect the rudder shaft.
I would start by dismantling the parts you can get access to.
The rudder quadrant must be taken off, seems to be made of aluminium.
Gentle heating with a torch can help release the SS bolts.

The ring in your picture between the stuffing box and the quadrant - do you know what purpose it have?

If you have to replace the stuffing box and bearings I would look at alternative solutions.
New solutions have been found since the boat was new

Here is a company with info on different solutions.
Jefa rudder and steering systems
direct link to an upgrade
Converting from plain bearings to roller bearings
Here is alternative solutions to get a seal
Sealing systems
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post #34 of 196 Old 01-20-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

My next move, maybe today is to dig out the packing rope so the Blaster stuff can get down in. Hopefully that and locating whatever holding pins are at the top of the shaft will release the rudder to drop. I assume there is something holding the shaft somewhere along the way. I suspect some sort of pinon the top end. I agree that quadrant has to come out. I will look at that today to see what is the easiest way. I have never disassembled steering gear like this before. Once I get the shaft out, my next move would be to determine how best to rebuild. I would be open to alternative/newer solutions. I assumed that improvements had been made since 1966. :-) But I would prefer to use the tube bolted to the hull as I dont want to mess with anything thru hull unless I must. I also agree that a little heat might be my option to get the old stuffing box freed up. I am trying to screw up my courage to go below with a butane torch. There is plenty of room below and fire extinguishers on hand if I could find something fireproof to lay down there for more protection I would feel better. Any ideas?
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post #35 of 196 Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Here's a link to the types of tools typically used to remove packing from gland seals.. these will help immensely if you can find a couple of each...

Packing Extractor and Packing Extractor Tools & Hooks by C.S. OSBORNE & CO.

If you're successful removing the packing material that might be all it will take to free things up.

Ron

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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
My next move, maybe today is to dig out the packing rope so the Blaster stuff can get down in. Hopefully that and locating whatever holding pins are at the top of the shaft will release the rudder to drop. I assume there is something holding the shaft somewhere along the way. I suspect some sort of pinon the top end. I agree that quadrant has to come out. I will look at that today to see what is the easiest way. I have never disassembled steering gear like this before. Once I get the shaft out, my next move would be to determine how best to rebuild. I would be open to alternative/newer solutions. I assumed that improvements had been made since 1966. :-) But I would prefer to use the tube bolted to the hull as I dont want to mess with anything thru hull unless I must. I also agree that a little heat might be my option to get the old stuffing box freed up. I am trying to screw up my courage to go below with a butane torch. There is plenty of room below and fire extinguishers on hand if I could find something fireproof to lay down there for more protection I would feel better. Any ideas?
Denise earlier suggested a portable generator and a heat gun. If you don't have either, you can buy a cheap 1000W generator for less than $100.- and a heat gun for less than 20.- (if there is no better place, use Harborfreight). This seems a much better solution than an open flame. And of course both will likely be of use in the future for other projects.
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post #37 of 196 Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

lower tube is through bolted.. looks like he can dig it out.. start new.

Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club.
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post #38 of 196 Old 01-20-2013 Thread Starter
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I was wondering about the lower tube. But wouldn't a new tube be required to match old bolt pattern? Otherwise I am modifying the hull which sounds like a lot more work to me. But if I tear up the tube getting the stuffing box out a new tube is the only way to go.

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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

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I was wondering about the lower tube. But wouldn't a new tube be required to match old bolt pattern? Otherwise I am modifying the hull which sounds like a lot more work to me. But if I tear up the tube getting the stuffing box out a new tube is the only way to go.
Today rudder tubes are fixed to the hull using fiberglass and polyester or epoxy.

If you need a new rudder tube and decide to keep the bolts you get the holes in the new flange drilled to fit or you can patch up the old holes and drill new.

It's difficult to see on the picture, the flange is on the outside of the hull?
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post #40 of 196 Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Not to belabour the obvious but you DO have some sort of blocking under the rudder for when you get it loose, right?

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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