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  #71  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

You're going to have to cut out the stuffing box from the hull... Tearing it out is what appears inevitable, and there may be collateral damage not intended. Further, from the top side appears there is serious interferences that will hinder extricating the stuffing box. Also, if you successfully remove the top half stuffing box I believe you'll still have to remove the bottom. Whereas removing the bottom MAY get you access to split the upper box from your access. A small hole in the hull or from above would be my first attempt so you are no longer working in the blind. I'd use a hole saw to make an access perhaps above and below. A core hole can easily be patched without compromising the strength. Again, just need care to select that first hole for a look see.
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  #72  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Thanks Dawg you may ultimately be right but opening new holes especially through the hull will be a last resort for me. I am still optimistic that I can figure out how to use my grinder to clamshell the stuffing box (there is only one just above the rudder tube) off of the rudder shaft. Once the stuffing box is released and all keys removed with quadrant loosened as it is now, the rudder should drop. I have it tied up for now just in case I get really lucky and the thing slides out while I am on a business trip this week. :-) But thanks for the ideas. I will keep that in mind as we move along. I actually have decent access to below decks as I found yesterday my 6'2" 220lbs fits completely into the port lazarette. Mind you it is an advance seated yoga position but once there can work/grind/drill/saw/whatever quite comfortably.
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  #73  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Faster is on it - these boats were almost entirely tiller boats, wheel was not likely even an option from Hinterhoeller back in the 60's unless someone insisted, so it could be after market. If George was still alive I'd drive over and ask him.

View it as a tiller boat. Rudder inserted from below into the tube, through the stuffing box/packing gland, through the cockpit sole and through the cast aluminum bearing plate that is fastened to the cockpit with 4 screws. Hole in the top of the stock would be for the original tiller to connect. It was a simple design, so keep it simple.

You have the quadrant disconnected, there is nothing clamping the stock above deck. In theory it should just drop out. I'm understanding the gland is fastened to the rudder tube similar to a driveshaft packing gland - rubber hose, hose clamp(s), other end of hose clamped to the bronze gland (Perko, Buck-Algonquin), shaft comes out the top end headed north. Gland screws together like a lid on a jar, should have a locknut on it too. If that is all loose/removed there should be travel. I'm thinking environmental corrosion, disimilar metals bonding, maintenance neglect over the years, likely near the bearing plate cause that is the primary entry area for salt water, dirt, etc.

When you force it, does the shaft rotate in the bearing plate on deck? Have you removed the screws from the bearing plate? Does it rotate freely now? It could be frozen there.

You might want to contact Bob Reese (he could be in FL for the winter) at Beneteau, Back Cove Yachts, Sabre Yachts, Used Boats, J Boats, Dealer for Sailboats and Power Boats, Parts, Services, Financing - They were volume dealers for Hinterheoller and Bob or someone in his shop might have your answer, a drawing, or some other advise.

This is a simple boat with a vexingly simple problem.
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  #74  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Rick,

The square key (it is not a woodruff) at the top of the bronze shaft was for the original rudder head. That was bolted to the original tiller head. Immediately below that was a 1/4" ss pin with cotters that rode against a large fiber thrust washer. That was all changed when the boat was converted to wheel. None of that gear holds the shaft up today; that's now accomplished at the lower bearing/gaiter/flange/tube assembly. As a long-time HR-28 owner, and having dropped my own rudder before, I am 100% sure of how the original tiller setup worked. The top aluminum ring (with the 4 bolts -- probably 3/16 ss -- is merely a trim plate -- nothing functional at all. Mine is teak (with bronze wood screws), and I still have the original tiller setup.

Bob Reese is definitely in Fla., and may well not remember conversions, but certainly well worth asking. Likewise, Don Finkle of RCR may remember some conversions. You can contact him via the RCR yachts website.

If you are unable to free the gland assembly while still on the shaft, you will need to cut it off the shaft -- being careful not to nick the shaft, of course. A small grinder, possibly a dremel, or ultimately a cold chisel may split it into 2 or more pieces. Later, you will want a new bearing/seal/gland that fits the rudder tube... or just replace the tube. The hull is solid laminate, and is easily machined as needed to accommodate a new flange is necessary.
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Last edited by pvanv1; 01-27-2013 at 11:49 AM. Reason: sp
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  #75  
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

The expert opinions weighing in here are very helpful. I am led to believe that I am on the right track. It is unfortunate I suppose but the gland/box has failed to release on the shaft. So I will be cutting it off. The challenge is doing that without cutting into the rudder tube. So both are probably toast. Once off I can probably get a new tube fabricated locally and order a new 2" box/bearing. Edson appears to have just what I need. I am a little nervous about nicking the shaft but will be careful. I am also nervous about releasing the rudder tube from the hull. The four bolts will come up but it appears bedded in some sort of white adhesive. But it is good to know that once the box/gland is cut away it should drop. Thanks folks. I am on the road til the weekend but will update then with progress
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  #76  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
I will be cutting it off. The challenge is doing that without cutting into the rudder tube. So both are probably toast.
I wouldn't try to cut completely through it with a cutoff wheel - very difficult to avoid cutting into the shaft unless you are a real artiste with a grinder.

I'd notch it deeply but also well clear of the shaft with a cutoff wheel and then finish up with a sharp cold chisel. Any dings you make in the shaft that way can be buffed or sanded off - or at least reduced to the point they are of no concern.

You're going to want to fine wet sand & polish the shaft anyway, no matter what.
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  #77  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

My thought on cutting off is a sawzall with new metal blade. It seems to me I could almost lay the bad right alongside and at same angle as rudder and follow it down. There might be some minor nicking but sanding should care for that. Grinding largely turns the disk into the rudder where it seems there is greater risk of developing deeper scars.
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  #78  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

With a small angle grinder and a zip blade cutter with a firm hand you should be able to cut 90% of the way through and then somehow open the rest up another way. Remember you only need to cut into the packing, peel the shells off to expose the packing and then deal with that. If you nick the lower tube you can easily reglass that.

I tried using a sawzall for a recent project and was kind of amazed at how little control you have over that bucking beast....

Your stock is bronze, not SS so it's going to get marred pretty easily.
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  #79  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Ye God, using a sawzall for this would be like using a machete to perform brain surgery.
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  #80  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Frozen rudder shaft Hinterhoeller 28

Haha! I will make a video for you :-)
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