Yikes! Mooring System Failure - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-16-2013
dvuyxx's Avatar
s/v Tiger Lily
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC - Annapolis
Posts: 546
Thanks: 44
Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 6
dvuyxx is on a distinguished road
Yikes! Mooring System Failure

The bad news: Last night, I looked out into our cove to find that our 500 lbs. mooring system was not in its usual location ... in fact, nowhere to be seen.

The good news: Our boat is on the hard for the winter.

So, this mooring ball was installed with a 500 lbs mushroom in 2009. I found the ball still attached to the lighter top chain on nearby shoreline. I dragged it up on land but I haven't examined it closely yet because the sun was setting and it was raining. It looks like it failed at the first swivel at the bottom of the upper chain.

Is less than four years a short life for a mooring system in a protected cove in brackish water? I thought that I would pull, inspect, and or replace after 5 years being on the cautious side.

I have to forensically go back and examine what we put down there. But was there anything that we could have done incorrectly here?

This is similar to what we had in our setup:
http://www.easternmarine.com/media/d...agram.7717.jpg
__________________
David
Severna Park, MD
Pearson 35 - s/v Tiger Lily
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 02-16-2013
Lake Superior Sailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eagle River Wi.
Posts: 908
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Lake Superior Sailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

Not all chain is created of the same quallity so I would start by checking what you used and who made it! ...Dale
__________________
Reluctant Lady
Cal 28, 1967
Lake Superior
Where God got it done!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 02-16-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,936
Thanks: 29
Thanked 56 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

The swivels are usually the weakest points...Im interested to see it thats where it failed. Why not just use two shackless to connect heavy and light chain?

This may seem dumb, but what not use heavy chain for the whole system?

Where actually is your mooring...on the Magothy? Which cove or creek?
dvuyxx likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 02-16-2013
dvuyxx's Avatar
s/v Tiger Lily
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC - Annapolis
Posts: 546
Thanks: 44
Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 6
dvuyxx is on a distinguished road
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

We're on upper Round Bay, Severn River.

My understanding is that if you don't have swivels the whole system binds and fouls. Also if you have heavy chain on the upper part of the system it is too much downward pull on the ball.
__________________
David
Severna Park, MD
Pearson 35 - s/v Tiger Lily

Last edited by dvuyxx; 02-16-2013 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 02-16-2013
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,236
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
tommays will become famous soon enough
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

In my area they are hauled and inspected annually
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 02-16-2013
dvuyxx's Avatar
s/v Tiger Lily
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC - Annapolis
Posts: 546
Thanks: 44
Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 6
dvuyxx is on a distinguished road
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

Are those municipal/organized or commercial moorings or private ones too that are pulled each year?
__________________
David
Severna Park, MD
Pearson 35 - s/v Tiger Lily
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 02-16-2013
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,303
Thanks: 10
Thanked 119 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvuyxx View Post
The bad news: Last night, I looked out into our cove to find that our 500 lbs. mooring system was not in its usual location ... in fact, nowhere to be seen.

The good news: Our boat is on the hard for the winter.

So, this mooring ball was installed with a 500 lbs mushroom in 2009. I found the ball still attached to the lighter top chain on nearby shoreline. I dragged it up on land but I haven't examined it closely yet because the sun was setting and it was raining. It looks like it failed at the first swivel at the bottom of the upper chain.

Is less than four years a short life for a mooring system in a protected cove in brackish water? I thought that I would pull, inspect, and or replace after 5 years being on the cautious side.

I have to forensically go back and examine what we put down there. But was there anything that we could have done incorrectly here?

This is similar to what we had in our setup:
http://www.easternmarine.com/media/d...agram.7717.jpg
Some thoughts...


* I would not place a swivel anywhere but at the ball so it can be expected regularly.. SWIVELS MUST BE LARGE!!!

* I would not install any swivel smaller than 3/4". I use an 1 1/4" swivel on a 36 footer. My top chain is 3/4" long link mooring chain and my bottom chain is 1 1/2" US Navy chain at nearly 22 pounds per foot.

* The chain and swivel should be "winterized" by installing a winter spar which allows the chain to be dropped to the bottom, stop wear and sit in the low oxygen mud bottom....

* Moorings should be inspected yearly or bi-yearly at a minimum. Top chain should really not be any smaller than 5/8 and really that is tiny chain for a permanent mooring.....

* Swivels are the highest wear item therefore they need to be directly below the ball. They should also be VERY LARGE so as they wear they don't wear faster than the top chain.

On a permanent mooring a top swivel is usually very necessary especially in areas of high tidal ranges as the boat swings around, and around, and around sometimes for weeks depending upon usage. Do this enough and the chain twists and shortens to 1:1 scope and sucks the ball under. If a storm comes up you simply un-set the mooring and drag it or shock load the gear until you have a failure.

The problem with the vast majority of moorings is they are grossly under designed. Swivels are too small, placed in the wrong locations or are of an unsuitable design.

Chain is also almost always far to light/small for storm purposes and "shock loads" the gear.

At a minimum for our boat (36') my design criteria is:

*8000 Pounds of granite (actual storm mooring is 9600 pounds), 500 pound mushroom (min) or screw mooring
*USCG/USN bottom chain (1 1/2" X 22 pounds per foot) to 1.5 X Depth
*3/4" Top chain to 1X depth
*1" Swivel MINIMUM directly below ball (actual is 1 1/4")
*Dual unequal length polyester pendants with Vectran storm snugs added to go over the chocks in storms.

I use a 1 1/4" swivel for our CS-36. Our town requires a top swivel on moorings as part of the local ordinance.

This is my eye to eye swivel for a 36 footer.
Swivel Eye To Eye 1 1/4"" Galvanized Made In USA

This is the bottom chain on one of our moorings, the lighter of the two. My storm mooring is the type with the cross bars in the links.
dvuyxx and CatMan22 like this.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 02-16-2013
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,303
Thanks: 10
Thanked 119 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
In my area they are hauled and inspected annually
Unless these are all deadweight moorings this is actually poor form dictated by a town without not much of a clue about proper mooring protocol. Yes the chain can be inspected but the moorings are all "barely set" which creates even lots of potential for danger in storms.

Mushroom and pyramid style moorings, and even dead weight moorings, can take months to properly set. Every time you un-set one you open up your potential for dragging the mooring because it is not yet set well. Inspections ideally should be done by town certified divers.

I will not let anyone un-set my mushroom mooring. It is 6' into the bottom..... That type of set takes a few years to attain....
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 02-16-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,936
Thanks: 29
Thanked 56 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Some thoughts...


* I would not place a swivel anywhere but at the ball so it can be expected regularly.. SWIVELS MUST BE LARGE!!!

* I would not install any swivel smaller than 3/4". I use an 1 1/4" swivel on a 36 footer. My top chain is 3/4" long link mooring chain and my bottom chain is 1 1/2" US Navy chain at nearly 22 pounds per foot.

* The chain and swivel should be "winterized" by installing a winter spar which allows the chain to be dropped to the bottom, stop wear and sit in the low oxygen mud bottom....

* Moorings should be inspected yearly or bi-yearly at a minimum. Top chain should really not be any smaller than 5/8 and really that is tiny chain for a permanent mooring.....

* Swivels are the highest wear item therefore they need to be directly below the ball. They should also be VERY LARGE so as they wear they don't wear faster than the top chain.

On a permanent mooring a top swivel is usually very necessary especially in areas of high tidal ranges as the boat swings around, and around, and around sometimes for weeks depending upon usage. Do this enough and the chain twists and shortens to 1:1 scope and sucks the ball under. If a storm comes up you simply un-set the mooring and drag it or shock load the gear until you have a failure.

The problem with the vast majority of moorings is they are grossly under designed. Swivels are too small, placed in the wrong locations or are of an unsuitable design.

Chain is also almost always far to light/small for storm purposes and "shock loads" the gear.

At a minimum for our boat (36') my design criteria is:

*8000 Pounds of granite (actual storm mooring is 9600 pounds), 500 pound mushroom (min) or screw mooring
*USCG/USN bottom chain (1 1/2" X 22 pounds per foot) to 1.5 X Depth
*3/4" Top chain to 1X depth
*1" Swivel MINIMUM directly below ball (actual is 1 1/4")
*Dual unequal length polyester pendants with Vectran storm snugs added to go over the chocks in storms.

I use a 1 1/4" swivel for our CS-36. Our town requires a top swivel on moorings as part of the local ordinance.

This is my eye to eye swivel for a 36 footer.
Swivel Eye To Eye 1 1/4"" Galvanized Made In USA

This is the bottom chain on one of our moorings, the lighter of the two. My storm mooring is the type with the cross bars in the links.
Gotcha on the need for swivel somewhere as it makes sense in "winding up the chain". So you only need the top one so you can inspect it.

Size of chain is impressive to say the least.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 02-16-2013
BarryL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,600
Thanks: 3
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 12
BarryL is on a distinguished road
Re: Yikes! Mooring System Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Unless these are all deadweight moorings this is actually poor form dictated by a town without not much of a clue about proper mooring protocol. Yes the chain can be inspected but the moorings are all "barely set" which creates even lots of potential for danger in storms.
Hey,

Here in the north shore of Long Island (south side of the LI Sound), the towns regulate moorings. I own my mooring gear but need to purchase a mooring permit each year. The mooring can be placed in the spring and must be hauled by December. The upside is that the place that drops and hauls my mooring also inspects it and replaces components as required.

Barry
__________________
Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply

Tags
chain , corrosion , mooring , shackle


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmar 2GM Winterization System Failure aloneinthewoods Diesel 3 09-06-2012 01:59 PM
Hazlett Mooring System question DoubleEnder General Discussion (sailing related) 0 11-09-2011 03:57 PM
Duarte Marine Makes Mooring Easy, Debuts First Single-Handed Mooring System - PR Web NewsReader News Feeds 1 10-06-2011 01:58 PM
New Mooring system jfranta Gear & Maintenance 2 05-07-2005 10:26 PM
Salt Water Cooling System failure. rclampitt Gear & Maintenance 4 07-28-2002 09:26 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:33 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.