Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart? - Page 2

tdw · #11 02-17-2013

C ... Ouch .... I missed the final chapter of that tale. I have to say that we have been seemingly very lucky with sailmakers. We've used McDiarmid for Raven's new main and they also made the main previous owner put on Kukka.

Largely because of convenience and because he sponsors the local club , we used Ben Gemmell for last bit of work and again no complaints. Ben is a good bloke, an energetic worker and knows his stuff.

Quite frankly if I want sail work done I want the sailmaker to come to the boat if possible.

Oh yes ... I'm afraid I'm also of the opinion that .... one should never accept the highest or lowest quote and if it sounds to good to be true then it probably is.

Hartley18 · #12 02-17-2013

It's a tale that is still unfolding.. I'm hoping to get the sail "fixed" in time for the next race this weekend - and he's promised to try to have it ready by Wednesday and come out for a sail with me a try it out - but if that happens I should probably buy a lottery ticket because my chances of winning would be just as great.

As you know, Melbourne is a racing city - no-one cruises around here; there's nowhere much to cruise to - and all of the sailmakers are busy all of the time preparing and repairing racing sails.

I'm fully expecting I'll have to put this sail away for sale with the boat as a "brand new spare" and quietly go elsewhere, but hopefully it won't come to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdw

Quite frankly if I want sail work done I want the sailmaker to come to the boat if possible.

Unless the sailmaker was awfully familar with the boat and what you want to do with it.. but even then, I'd think that was essential meself.

overbored · #13 02-17-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by blt2ski

$1500 for a mainsail for your boat! You GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR!!!!!!

Go away, you barking up the major wrong tree here! A Base main for my 6500 lb 28' on deck is $1500, cost me close to $4K for a string style racing sail.

Again, "YOU GOT WHAT YOUR PAID FOR!!!!!"

Can I say go away again and get away with it.

Marty

I have to agree, a heavy duty mainsail for 44' cruising boat here in the states will be in the $ 4k and up range

zz4gta · #14 02-18-2013

A string sail for my 25 footer costs $2,000.
Congratulations, you won. You wanted the cheapest sail posible, and you got it.

From the time I first talk to a sailmaker to the time of delivery and sea trial there are probably 20+ emails that go back and forth answering questions on battens, slides, chafe protection, predicted use, cloth, manufacturing process, shipping, etc. If you go to a sailmaker and can't even invest the time to tell them exactly what you want, why should they care about giving you a quality product?

I'm the worst/best customer when it comes to buying anything. Research the product and what your demands of it will be. Ask a lot of questions and have the vendor explain why spending more is a good thing. Justification. Don't just say, I need a heavy sail for a 44' boat and it has to be cheap.

On every rigging job I do there are a lot of questions and dozens of emails back and forth to make sure the customer knows exactly what they want and that they are willing to pay for it. Sometimes you can save some money (spin sheets), other times you poney up the dough and do it right (vectran main halyard). I'm not going to build a stretchy vang for someone who doesn't have a traveler and will be vang sheeting. The customer won't be happy.

I blame the sailmaker as much as the customer for this mainsail screwup. Not nearly enough communication and no understanding of the product wanted compared to the producted delivered. Price should be an afterthought. Get the right gear first. Now fixing this problem will be very expensive.

tdw · #15 02-18-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by overbored

I have to agree, a heavy duty mainsail for 44' cruising boat here in the states will be in the $ 4k and up range

btw ... Banyandah is not 44', she's only 37.

Doesn't alter the fact that the sail was too cheap.

Andrew B

JackandJude · #16 02-18-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by blt2ski

$1500 for a mainsail for your boat! You GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR!!!!!!

Go away, you barking up the major wrong tree here! A Base main for my 6500 lb 28' on deck is $1500, cost me close to $4K for a string style racing sail.

Again, "YOU GOT WHAT YOUR PAID FOR!!!!!"

Can I say go away again and get away with it.

Marty

Hello Marty,
You can tell us to go away all you like - but we won't. Have as much right to warn others of our mishap as you have to tell us to go away.

BTW We had three quotes for this sail, all for that sort of money. Maybe you're paying too much. Prices vary immensely around the world. Volume, labour costs, running costs and profit margin determine the cost of an item.

Yep, we got stung this time. What's so annoying, Jack spoke on the telephone to the sailmaker many times before placing the order. What a fibber he has turned out to be. He knew quite clearly the service the sail would see.

JackandJude · #17 02-18-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz4gta

A string sail for my 25 footer costs $2,000.
Congratulations, you won. You wanted the cheapest sail posible, and you got it.

Thanks zz4gta - Dah! What we want is what the sail loft quoted. Triple stitched Bainbridge Ocean 1055 cloth, a 6" headboard, 24" of roach, full length battens and slides laid out orderly so we can actually reef this sucker.

We did not want the cheapest sail possible. A good price -absolutely. But when two other well-respected international lofts quote a similar price then we figure the sail can be made for the money.

Furthermore, Jack spoke with this guy many times, outlined just what we do, and that is we sail on average 5000 NM every year down here in the big stuff. Crikey Jack even sent him his latest book, Where Wild Winds Blow that illustrates we can be several weeks on the wind in 30 to 40 knots of the great southern ocean.

We did not want this packet of trouble. The sailmaker has proven to be a con artist and we got taken. Do not buy from Somerset Sails - you've been warned.

BTW We ordered this sail to voyage south around New Zealand - told the sailmaker that also. But Mate, we're not going down there with this. We're in Tasmania in the roaring forties but we're now heading north into the the mild tropics while we sort this out/ Cheers

blt2ski · #18 02-18-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackandJude

Hello Marty,
You can tell us to go away all you like - but we won't. Have as much right to warn others of our mishap as you have to tell us to go away.

BTW We had three quotes for this sail, all for that sort of money. Maybe you're paying too much. Prices vary immensely around the world. Volume, labour costs, running costs and profit margin determine the cost of an item.

Yep, we got stung this time. What's so annoying, Jack spoke on the telephone to the sailmaker many times before placing the order. What a fibber he has turned out to be. He knew quite clearly the service the sail would see.

The sailmaker should not have promised what you wanted for $1500. NO sailmaker should have said they could build you a sail for $1500. Not sure how big your sail is, but mine is 190#, ALL of the quotes I got, 7-8 different types from base dacron to a string style, varied from $1300 to upwards of $4k. I would expect to pay in the $4-6K if your sail is the size I think it is. 15-20' boom, 50' tall. 500# or so, possibly bigger or a skoosh smaller.

You got had by yourself, the sailmaker got you. At least he has offered to refund some portion of the money........

Reality is, you cloth, headboard etc probably would be in the $1500-2000 range. Contact someone like sailrite with your sails demensions, see what they will sell you an unmade kit ready to sew together for. My boat is in the 700-900 range.

Whether you go away is another story, I really do not care. Reality is, you were being cheep! you got had. Open up the check book a bit more. Try Lee sails, they are probably the best cheap sail maker on the planet frankly. I would give you a REALLY good sailmaker, but her dacron full blown world cruise sail was 3G for my boat!

Cam on the other hand, I do feel sorry for his situation. The OP, not one bit!

marty

Hartley18 · #19 02-18-2013

Not sure how relevant this is to you Jack, but when I got my new main done (an old one re-cut) the sailmaker refused to fit a headboard saying something like "we don't do that these days" or something along those lines.. and I guess having one made up would add quite a bit to the cost.

I was a tad disappointed because I wouldn't mind having the extra roach a headboard provides, but it wasn't a deal-breaker for me, so I currently don't have one.

zz4gta · #20 02-18-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackandJude

Thanks zz4gta - Dah! What we want is what the sail loft quoted. Triple stitched Bainbridge Ocean 1055 cloth, a 6" headboard, 24" of roach, full length battens and slides laid out orderly so we can actually reef this sucker.

If this was agreed on, in writting, then maybe you have some legal recourse. That's why it's good to pay 1/2 up front and 1/2 upon delivery. If the sailmaker honestly didn't build what you asked, then you should have a way to get your money back.

You've convinced me not to use sumerset sails, but then again, it would take quite some convincing to get me to use anyone else besides Quantum.