Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart? - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 49 Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

zz4gta, good sailmakers (especially those from the bigger firms like Quantum) tend to move around a bit during their working life, so I do hope you won't require too much convincing.

Just because Quantum have a good rep in your area now, doesn't mean that the same guys won't be working someplace else in future. It always pays to get a current recommendation first before placing an order..

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post #22 of 49 Old 02-18-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Again, "YOU GOT WHAT YOUR PAID FOR!!!!!"
Can I say go away again and get away with it.
Marty
blt2ski I took your remark as being rude, and replied in kind.

FYI our mainsail is tiny. 11.3' foot X 41.2' hoist, it was quoted Daron, nothing fancy, therefore $1500 is a good, fair price. And Lee Sails would make it for that, and it would be well made for cruising folk like us who put on lots of miles but do not have to win races.

Hartley18 We wanted the headboard for exactly those reasons, to increase our roach and our sail area, especially as we were buying a full length batten mainsail. BUT we did not get the headboard nor the increased sail area - Somerset Sails even scrimped on the specified foot by a few inches. It's obvious, looking at the photos you can tell he scrimped on everything except his fancy talk. So, yes, we are mad. To be conned by a sail maker is the lowest of lows.

zz4gta Thank you for your advice, but honestly, I'd rather be sailing than trying to get a few bucks out that guy through legal action. I'm tight, but I ain't nuts. I'll fix this one if it can be fixed, or buy another one.

Let's change tacks, fixing the luff is going to be the hard bit. It is a simple fold-over. No lateral reinforcing at all, so its two layers of cloth period. There's a luff rope, but it's not in play when the sail is reefed. The man just sewed it on at each end. Therefore when the luff is most loaded only those two layers take the strain. And there's stitching at every panel, folded over and subject to chafe.

We reckon all the slide grommets will have to be removed, the edge suitably strengthened and new slide grommets put back at the correct spacing. The leach and foot are the same construction, but no grommets to remove and replace.


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post #23 of 49 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

Then you should have bought the sail from Lee, not the fellow in New York.

So your sail is not much bigger than mine, but is is bigger! I'm at 10x32.5.

The sail maker offered you a refund, take it, cut your loss's.

SO which one of you is replying. First sounded like Jack. 2nd and third Jude. Last couple jack. SO which is it?

Marty

ps
By the way, I mod on a few other forums. and when folks come on with tales like yours, ran out on other forums, I have no problem getting in there face, especially if they are part to blame! as my feeling is you are, as is the sailmaker.

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post #24 of 49 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

Send the sail back, get back what you can, buy a good one from a reputable loft. No point pissing around, you are just wasting your time.
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post #25 of 49 Old 02-19-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
I have no problem getting in there face, especially if they are part to blame! as my feeling is you are, as is the sailmaker.
That's just it. We do not feel any blame. We made a deal, wrote out the specs, Somerset approved them but did not deliver. How do you figure we're to blame?
WHY:
We bought the sail from Somerset because he offered us the TIDES Track system, and because he and I grew up in the same town. Thought we'd swing some business his way! Even offered to promote his business on our website if he made a good sail because we support good marine businesses. Our website gets 30,000 hits every year! The guy's got no brain.
REFUND:
You may be a mod, but you ought to do your homework. We spelt out exactly what this loft offered as a refund. In short: We paid $1500 and Somerset will refund $818, that is after we fork out another $300 to send it back. Of course that also leaves us without a sail.

Thank you for your "good advice" but we have been managing just fine for a hell of a lot of miles, and will work this out. The money is quite secondary. The whole point is to alert our fellow sailors that an unscrupulous sailmaker was not honoring his word and to be aware. That's it. Do not buy from Somerset Sails or you may suffer the same fate.

As to the voice, we've been sailing this small boat for nearly our entire married life, 44 years, so we both jump in.


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post #26 of 49 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

So heres my question. Its obvious you posted on another sailing site. It seems you were met with some pushback there too. You really arent lookimng for advice now are you? Your purpose here is to warm us about your bad experience with this sailmaker right? Thats all you had to do.

My mainsail is a little larger than yours and it is quality made. I did the research, saw a sail made exactly like it before I bought it. Sure there were some a small amount cheaper like Tasker and Lee sails...I saw a quality difference and went with Quantum as well as their customer service. You went cheap...trued to go cheap...and got what you paid for,....cheap.

I think you are lucky that the Sailmaker is willing to refund any of your money.

If your purpose was to warn us and run down the sailmaker...mission accomplished, let it go now. Any more than that now is a window into you.

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post #27 of 49 Old 02-19-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
got what you paid for,....cheap.

I think you are lucky that the Sailmaker is willing to refund any of your money.

If your purpose was to warn us and run down the sailmaker...mission accomplished, let it go now. Any more than that now is a window into you.

Dave
Well Dave, you are partly right and partly not. Maybe we haven't as much money as you and have to look for a good deal. Lord knows they are out there. We have traveled the world watching the pennies, never mucked anyone about, made a deal and stuck to it, right or wrong. We had a business, made timber furniture, stairs, kitchens, and never ever had one complaint. We have spent hours writing of our sailing experiences good and bad to help and encourage, have put out cruising guides of areas we know really well - put them out for free on our website. Why? Because a lot of good kind folk have helped us immensely.

Yep, we've pushed this barrow about as far as we should. But we still want everyone to know that good folk like us, who have been around the track a long time, can still be duded by the likes of this New York sailmaker. You call us cheap. You say we got what we paid for. We say we did not get what we paid for because Martin of Somerset quoted us a heavy duty cruising sail and delivered, knowing we were thousands of miles away, a real shocker. A sail you wouldn't take across the great lakes, let alone across the great southern ocean.
And you know what, in our pursuit to warn others we have had to put up with plenty of crap remarks about our integrity, our motives, we've been called liars, even called extortionist.
So you want us to quit? Goodonya. And have a nice day.


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post #28 of 49 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
zz4gta, good sailmakers (especially those from the bigger firms like Quantum) tend to move around a bit during their working life, so I do hope you won't require too much convincing.

Just because Quantum have a good rep in your area now, doesn't mean that the same guys won't be working someplace else in future. It always pays to get a current recommendation first before placing an order..
I'm talking about manufacturing processes, not people. People aren't making sails anymore, not laminates anyway, and the dacron stuff is usually completed in other countries w/ much cheaper labor. They're just finishing them/selling them. Q sails (in my experience, laminate sails) hold their shape longer w/o delamination. They do tend to be a bit heavier than North. Norths are fast, but after 3 seasons, they're starting to fall apart.

The above does not include 3Di sails.

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post #29 of 49 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

I had some sails made a couple of years ago and made the purchase on line. Price was important, but I was hestitate about making an online purchase since getting a remedy for screw ups from a non local vendor could be problematic. What swayed me was a recommendation from a very good poster here on sailnet(Mainesail) and the product received was quite good and at a reasonable price to boot.
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post #30 of 49 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

When I hear some tale like this, I am glad to live in America, the home of too much government regulation.

With written specifications for the sail, and a substantially non-conforming product delivered, there are multiple layers of legal recourse and while it could take a month or three, the seller would be required to make a full refund AND absorb the cost of picking up his non-conforming goods.

Does Oz or NZ have no protection for consumers? No mention of why that wasn't the first recourse? Or does this tale of woe fall into other jurisdictions? Did you mail a packet of cash, or a money order? Half-unspoken posts on web sites won't accomplish what other legal remedies usually will.
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