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Mainsail from Hell OR am I an Old Fart?

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mainsail
7K views 48 replies 17 participants last post by  JackandJude 
#1 ·
For those of us who live life afloat, finding good gear at the right price is a top priority. That's why we shout to all about the good stuff, and thankfully less often, warn of being taken. Here are the facts - you judge.

Jack and Jude have sailed nearly 150,000 NM since 1973, many of those aboard a vessel called Banyandah, meaning "Home on the Water," a vessel they built themselves when they were kids.

Needing a new mainsail to explore the treacherous Fjords on New Zealand's South Island, we sent out specs to several sail makers. Three came back with similar good prices, only one offered a good track system for full length batten at a fair price, so they got the order.

But we did not get what we ordered.

1/ We did not get the size of sail agreed.
2/ We did not get a headboard as specified.
3/ The slides were installed incorrectly - against the track maker's advice.
4/ The attachment points are very weak, small and not designed for heavy use.
5/ The edges are simple fold over, weak and not designed for heavy use.

We have created a website of photos that clearly shows how poorly made this sail is. Have a look.

When we asked for our money back, the man wrote this to us: (copied and pasted)
You just want money, you are not an honest man.
You are using extortion to try to get a free sail.
Also I did the math and you could not have sailed as many miles as you claim.

Are we out of touch? Is this considered a heavy duty cruising mainsail today?

 
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#2 · (Edited)
What specifically did you order

Sailcloth, weight reefs, deminsions for what kind of boat features, batten pockets. Do you have other pictures.

Right off the get go cruising sails that I jhave priced are usually triple stitched or they have decreased the throw of the zigzag. The Clews are reenforced big time.

Hard to tell because of so many variables though. What did you pay.

As an example We have a two year old Quantum Mainsail

8 oz high modulus performance sailcloth- 290 sq ft
4 full battens with closed batten sleeves
triple stitched, cross cut, 2 reefs with reef bands
metal reenforced head board with web
renforced tack and clews
numbers
and other features.

This was $2800
 
#3 · (Edited)
Are we out of touch? Is this considered a heavy duty cruising mainsail today?

Some lessons to learn from this..
When buying sail mail order (or in his shop)
-Get picture documentation from the sail maker of details from similar sail.
-Check references
-Get detailed spec

Here is a picture of my cruising main (made in cruising laminate)


Tack/Cunningham area on the same sail, the reef points have similar reinforcements - sorry no picture of those
 
#5 ·
Hello MarkSF

By the numbers commenting on that CF thread shows a keen interest in an issue effecting our community and has brought many good suggestions.

We made a mistake by blindly putting our faith in a supplier and have had to put off sailing plans conceived and worked towards for the last six months. It would be a tragedy if others were so effected - shoddy suppliers who promise one thing and supply something much less are not only irksome and costly, they can create great danger.

Also, in this thread, we are wondering if it is us who are out of touch with modern sail making as this sail maker has claimed.

knuterikt - that's a nice looking clew. Our furling headsail finishes like that.
 
#6 ·
Also, in this thread, we are wondering if it is us who are out of touch with modern sail making as this sail maker has claimed.
No, not necessarily out of touch.. it is simply very hard for a sailmaker who has only ever known how to build racing sails (or, more specifically has forgotten how) to build cruising ones!

I can tell you from current experience that even going back to the guy who made the old one won't always help. These days, to keep costs down, sails tend to be computer-cut somewhere else and then assembled at the local sail loft. If he didn't understand what you wanted, like me and my futile attempts to get a new headsail, you're screwed.. :(

IMO, you need to find some "old salt" who will show you cloth samples, measure up your boat and take the time to work out exactly what you need - but it certainly won't be the cheapest quote you get.
 
#7 ·
I think that believing you could get a quality mainsail for a heavy 44 footer for $1500 was the first mis-step.. I can't get a small jib for our 34 footer for that....

A great illustration of why 'on-line' buying isn't for 'everything'....
 
#8 ·
I'm well in agreement from the looks of it the sail is rubbish but I'm afraid that if I was after a new sail I'd be going local even if it did cost a bit more. No international supplier is going to cover the shipping costs as part of a warranty so for mine large items bought offshore with no international warranty backup are posing a major risk.

Nonetheless, figuring you guys are on a pretty tight budget I'm really sorry to hear of your misfortune. Quite frankly the whle thing sucks.

Has there been any feedback from other customers of this loft ?

Andrew B

btw Hartley ... what's this about your headsail ?
 
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#10 ·
btw Hartley ... what's this about your headsail ?
TD, if you really want to know:

As mentioned on the previous thread, my current heavy-duty headsail was getting a bit long in the tooth anyways before the old furler chafed the boltrope out of it in a few places. It's also (a) stretched out of shape, especially along the foot, by being hardened in tight for +10years and (b) needed a new UV cover (apparently it's 4th..) - so I decided to fork out for a new one to fit the new furler.

That was my instructions to Doyles: "New headsail to fit the new furler, but please make it shorter on the foot so I can set it properly." So the sailmaker measures up and takes away the old headsail to use as a template... and comes back with a headsail that fits the furler great, but is so long on the foot, I can't set it any tighter than a reach without relocating my jib tracks to the stern!! :mad:

Can you guess what happened? He made the foot of the new one the same length as the stretched one... FFS. :(

(Reminder to self: Make sure next boat has a full set of good sails, because unless the boat has a glossy carbon fibre rig and is a regular winner of major ocean races, dealing with sailmakers is no fun at all.)
 
#9 ·
$1500 for a mainsail for your boat! You GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR!!!!!!

Go away, you barking up the major wrong tree here! A Base main for my 6500 lb 28' on deck is $1500, cost me close to $4K for a string style racing sail.

Again, "YOU GOT WHAT YOUR PAID FOR!!!!!"

Can I say go away again and get away with it.

Marty
 
#13 ·
$1500 for a mainsail for your boat! You GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR!!!!!!

Go away, you barking up the major wrong tree here! A Base main for my 6500 lb 28' on deck is $1500, cost me close to $4K for a string style racing sail.

Again, "YOU GOT WHAT YOUR PAID FOR!!!!!"

Can I say go away again and get away with it.

Marty
I have to agree, a heavy duty mainsail for 44' cruising boat here in the states will be in the $ 4k and up range
 
#11 ·
C ... Ouch .... I missed the final chapter of that tale. I have to say that we have been seemingly very lucky with sailmakers. We've used McDiarmid for Raven's new main and they also made the main previous owner put on Kukka.

Largely because of convenience and because he sponsors the local club , we used Ben Gemmell for last bit of work and again no complaints. Ben is a good bloke, an energetic worker and knows his stuff.

Quite frankly if I want sail work done I want the sailmaker to come to the boat if possible.

Oh yes ... I'm afraid I'm also of the opinion that .... one should never accept the highest or lowest quote and if it sounds to good to be true then it probably is.
 
#12 ·
It's a tale that is still unfolding.. I'm hoping to get the sail "fixed" in time for the next race this weekend - and he's promised to try to have it ready by Wednesday and come out for a sail with me a try it out - but if that happens I should probably buy a lottery ticket because my chances of winning would be just as great. :eek:

As you know, Melbourne is a racing city - no-one cruises around here; there's nowhere much to cruise to - and all of the sailmakers are busy all of the time preparing and repairing racing sails.

I'm fully expecting I'll have to put this sail away for sale with the boat as a "brand new spare" and quietly go elsewhere, but hopefully it won't come to that.

Quite frankly if I want sail work done I want the sailmaker to come to the boat if possible.
Unless the sailmaker was awfully familar with the boat and what you want to do with it.. but even then, I'd think that was essential meself.
 
#14 ·
A string sail for my 25 footer costs $2,000.
Congratulations, you won. You wanted the cheapest sail posible, and you got it.


From the time I first talk to a sailmaker to the time of delivery and sea trial there are probably 20+ emails that go back and forth answering questions on battens, slides, chafe protection, predicted use, cloth, manufacturing process, shipping, etc. If you go to a sailmaker and can't even invest the time to tell them exactly what you want, why should they care about giving you a quality product?

I'm the worst/best customer when it comes to buying anything. Research the product and what your demands of it will be. Ask a lot of questions and have the vendor explain why spending more is a good thing. Justification. Don't just say, I need a heavy sail for a 44' boat and it has to be cheap.

On every rigging job I do there are a lot of questions and dozens of emails back and forth to make sure the customer knows exactly what they want and that they are willing to pay for it. Sometimes you can save some money (spin sheets), other times you poney up the dough and do it right (vectran main halyard). I'm not going to build a stretchy vang for someone who doesn't have a traveler and will be vang sheeting. The customer won't be happy.

I blame the sailmaker as much as the customer for this mainsail screwup. Not nearly enough communication and no understanding of the product wanted compared to the producted delivered. Price should be an afterthought. Get the right gear first. Now fixing this problem will be very expensive.
 
#17 ·
A string sail for my 25 footer costs $2,000.
Congratulations, you won. You wanted the cheapest sail posible, and you got it.
Thanks zz4gta - Dah! What we want is what the sail loft quoted. Triple stitched Bainbridge Ocean 1055 cloth, a 6" headboard, 24" of roach, full length battens and slides laid out orderly so we can actually reef this sucker.

We did not want the cheapest sail possible. A good price -absolutely. But when two other well-respected international lofts quote a similar price then we figure the sail can be made for the money.

Furthermore, Jack spoke with this guy many times, outlined just what we do, and that is we sail on average 5000 NM every year down here in the big stuff. Crikey Jack even sent him his latest book, Where Wild Winds Blow that illustrates we can be several weeks on the wind in 30 to 40 knots of the great southern ocean.

We did not want this packet of trouble. The sailmaker has proven to be a con artist and we got taken. Do not buy from Somerset Sails - you've been warned.

BTW We ordered this sail to voyage south around New Zealand - told the sailmaker that also. But Mate, we're not going down there with this. We're in Tasmania in the roaring forties but we're now heading north into the the mild tropics while we sort this out/ Cheers
 
#19 · (Edited)
Not sure how relevant this is to you Jack, but when I got my new main done (an old one re-cut) the sailmaker refused to fit a headboard saying something like "we don't do that these days" or something along those lines.. and I guess having one made up would add quite a bit to the cost.

I was a tad disappointed because I wouldn't mind having the extra roach a headboard provides, but it wasn't a deal-breaker for me, so I currently don't have one.
 
#21 ·
zz4gta, good sailmakers (especially those from the bigger firms like Quantum) tend to move around a bit during their working life, so I do hope you won't require too much convincing.

Just because Quantum have a good rep in your area now, doesn't mean that the same guys won't be working someplace else in future. It always pays to get a current recommendation first before placing an order..
 
#28 ·
I'm talking about manufacturing processes, not people. People aren't making sails anymore, not laminates anyway, and the dacron stuff is usually completed in other countries w/ much cheaper labor. They're just finishing them/selling them. Q sails (in my experience, laminate sails) hold their shape longer w/o delamination. They do tend to be a bit heavier than North. Norths are fast, but after 3 seasons, they're starting to fall apart.

The above does not include 3Di sails.
 
#23 ·
Then you should have bought the sail from Lee, not the fellow in New York.

So your sail is not much bigger than mine, but is is bigger! I'm at 10x32.5.

The sail maker offered you a refund, take it, cut your loss's.

SO which one of you is replying. First sounded like Jack. 2nd and third Jude. Last couple jack. SO which is it?

Marty

ps
By the way, I mod on a few other forums. and when folks come on with tales like yours, ran out on other forums, I have no problem getting in there face, especially if they are part to blame! as my feeling is you are, as is the sailmaker.
 
#25 ·
I have no problem getting in there face, especially if they are part to blame! as my feeling is you are, as is the sailmaker.
That's just it. We do not feel any blame. We made a deal, wrote out the specs, Somerset approved them but did not deliver. How do you figure we're to blame?
WHY:
We bought the sail from Somerset because he offered us the TIDES Track system, and because he and I grew up in the same town. Thought we'd swing some business his way! Even offered to promote his business on our website if he made a good sail because we support good marine businesses. Our website gets 30,000 hits every year! The guy's got no brain.
REFUND:
You may be a mod, but you ought to do your homework. We spelt out exactly what this loft offered as a refund. In short: We paid $1500 and Somerset will refund $818, that is after we fork out another $300 to send it back. Of course that also leaves us without a sail.

Thank you for your "good advice" but we have been managing just fine for a hell of a lot of miles, and will work this out. The money is quite secondary. The whole point is to alert our fellow sailors that an unscrupulous sailmaker was not honoring his word and to be aware. That's it. Do not buy from Somerset Sails or you may suffer the same fate.

As to the voice, we've been sailing this small boat for nearly our entire married life, 44 years, so we both jump in.
 
#26 ·
So heres my question. Its obvious you posted on another sailing site. It seems you were met with some pushback there too. You really arent lookimng for advice now are you? Your purpose here is to warm us about your bad experience with this sailmaker right? Thats all you had to do.

My mainsail is a little larger than yours and it is quality made. I did the research, saw a sail made exactly like it before I bought it. Sure there were some a small amount cheaper like Tasker and Lee sails...I saw a quality difference and went with Quantum as well as their customer service. You went cheap...trued to go cheap...and got what you paid for,....cheap.

I think you are lucky that the Sailmaker is willing to refund any of your money.

If your purpose was to warn us and run down the sailmaker...mission accomplished, let it go now. Any more than that now is a window into you.

Dave
 
#27 ·
got what you paid for,....cheap.

I think you are lucky that the Sailmaker is willing to refund any of your money.

If your purpose was to warn us and run down the sailmaker...mission accomplished, let it go now. Any more than that now is a window into you.

Dave
Well Dave, you are partly right and partly not. Maybe we haven't as much money as you and have to look for a good deal. Lord knows they are out there. We have traveled the world watching the pennies, never mucked anyone about, made a deal and stuck to it, right or wrong. We had a business, made timber furniture, stairs, kitchens, and never ever had one complaint. We have spent hours writing of our sailing experiences good and bad to help and encourage, have put out cruising guides of areas we know really well - put them out for free on our website. Why? Because a lot of good kind folk have helped us immensely.

Yep, we've pushed this barrow about as far as we should. But we still want everyone to know that good folk like us, who have been around the track a long time, can still be duded by the likes of this New York sailmaker. You call us cheap. You say we got what we paid for. We say we did not get what we paid for because Martin of Somerset quoted us a heavy duty cruising sail and delivered, knowing we were thousands of miles away, a real shocker. A sail you wouldn't take across the great lakes, let alone across the great southern ocean.
And you know what, in our pursuit to warn others we have had to put up with plenty of crap remarks about our integrity, our motives, we've been called liars, even called extortionist.
So you want us to quit? Goodonya. And have a nice day.
 
#29 ·
I had some sails made a couple of years ago and made the purchase on line. Price was important, but I was hestitate about making an online purchase since getting a remedy for screw ups from a non local vendor could be problematic. What swayed me was a recommendation from a very good poster here on sailnet(Mainesail) and the product received was quite good and at a reasonable price to boot.
 
#30 ·
When I hear some tale like this, I am glad to live in America, the home of too much government regulation.

With written specifications for the sail, and a substantially non-conforming product delivered, there are multiple layers of legal recourse and while it could take a month or three, the seller would be required to make a full refund AND absorb the cost of picking up his non-conforming goods.

Does Oz or NZ have no protection for consumers? No mention of why that wasn't the first recourse? Or does this tale of woe fall into other jurisdictions? Did you mail a packet of cash, or a money order? Half-unspoken posts on web sites won't accomplish what other legal remedies usually will.
 
#31 ·
What I'm uncomfortable with is the OP using this discussion forum as a proxy to put leverage on the sailmaker. We've only heard one side of the story and the OP has only cut and pasted a couple of fragments of the conversation and we've no idea what discussion has gone on.

It's a case of "I can't get what I want so I'll use the internet to damage this guy's business until he gives me what I want"

I'll tell the OP this though, if you're not willing to send the sail back, and not willing to have the sail fixed locally, you are stuck with it.
 
#33 ·
I'm calling BS on this whole thread. To borrow a phrase from Cool Hand Luke- "What we've got here is failure to communicate". IMO, the OP obviously did not do a good job of communicating his wishes clearly and the sail maker didn't do a good job of explaining what he would deliver. When you read this thread and the other thread on CF you see phrases like " the sailmaker should have known". Really? There is also is a lesson here in that you should probably deal locally if you have very specific needs. If the OP was local to the sailmaker he could bring the sail back to loft, demand it be fixed, or his money back, or a new sail. Probably would have been resolved by now. The OPs biggest problem is that he/she is a world away from the sailmaker. On a tight budget, the freight to send the sail back eats into the cost quite a bit. On the other thread the OP said he was having the sail modified locally and keeping it. So why post here on sailnet if you have already resolved the issue? You would think that would be the end of the story but no, the OP seems to want to punish the sailmaker. Obviously whining about it on CF wasn't enough. Threatening the sailmaker with negative reports on sailing websites would appear to cut off any realistic path to a settlement. Anybody want to buy this guy's book after this?

BTW- all those recommending legal recourse are nuts. Good luck coming out whole on that. Considering the legal fees, time, and expenses you could easily spend more recovering your money than you would get. No guarantee that you would win.You might feel better but your pocket would be lighter and you still wouldn't have a sail.
 
#34 ·
Mark-
I'm not sure about a correct amount of regulation. There are folks who would say the Mafia manages to make things work with much less paperwork than Congress.

With the smattering on information we have here, who knows. In the US, where the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) can often be applied, sometimes the guy who SENT the non-conforming goods is responsible for taking them back. As I explained to a company that sent the wrong hard drive to a business once (a pricey server drive) the old one would be held for a pickup for 30 days, as per the UCC. And then placed on the doorstep with the trash, if they didn't feel like sending a pickup for it.

And yes, that's US law for certain transactions. Consumers don't always get it so easy, but when you didn't order something? Or, you ordered a cow and someone sent a goat? Not your problem, if you can document it. "Well its got four legs and a tail, isn't that close enough?" Ah, no.

I'll offer any vendor one carrot, once. After that? It's the stick. Here, well, we just don't know the laws, the terms, the much of anything. Except both sides apparently agree the sail is white.

That's a good start, right?!
 
#36 ·
Jack,

Being as you have numerous books out, you are probably a bit well known to a degree. Remember, the beetching about something as you have done, can come back to haunt you.

I've spent 30 some odd years landscaping in the area I live in. At an association meeting about 20 yrs ago, some of us that had the same type of clients starting talking about clients from hell. ALL but one at a table of 8 had delt with one women in a local town. A month later she started her normal spring or what ever calling to find someone to replace who she did not like. Even tho many of us felt the yard looked great driving by, no weeds, lawn was edged, green etc. She wanted it cheep! Only would pay X dollars, which was about 3-5 hrs a month, yet it would take 10-12hrs to really keep up the yard, plus fertilizer, weed killers etc. Soon she kept getting increased bills 3-4 times what was started with. because she did not want to pay, but would not pay unless you spent the 10-12 hrs, and she kept track!

She called me one day to get a bid, I told her I would not. Even tho she got my name from the assoc directory. ALong with being the state president at the time. I told her why, along with I had attempted to keep her happy 7 yrs ago. Did not work, I lost my shirt on her place. She moved out of the house a few yrs later, supposedly to a condo or equal. The place never looked good after that phone call, as she could not get anyone to work for her. For many of us knew, she would not pay the proper amount to do what we had to do to keep her yard maintained the way she wanted.

So by beetching about this person, you are as said earlier, saying a lot about yourself. It is possible, that we in the contracting biz call, adding a ding dong factor for folks we feel will be PITA's! will do just that for you now. As ratting on the internet, can get you the other way around! It was not uncommon for me to add upwards of 20-30% of what I might normally charge for someone I could tell would be PITA! If I got the job, I was at least partially covered for said ding dong. If I did not get the job, oh well.........

Not sure if as you stated, all was agreed to up front, be it your fault for not, or if you did say truly what you wanted, but made it also be you wanted low cost......being as this sailmaker is literally as far from you as can be.......may not have worried about you, cared or otherwise......This episode can and may bite both of you in the rear asset! Be careful in how you continue to approach the issue at hand! There is ALWAYS two sides to any given situation!

Marty
 
#40 ·
I'm inclined to agree here. While there ARE always two sides to a story, and we're only getting one of them here, I can't really see how a sailmaker could make a sail like the one in the picture and ship it to someone planning on going offshore.

Questions to the OP, you said 3 lofts quoted you similar prices. Inquiring minds want to know, who else out there is selling sails that cheap?

Advice to the OP: Send the sail back. It is absolutely clear that this sail will not suit you at all. Your options are :
1. Fix it.
2. Buy another.

I don't think option 1 is a viable one, and keeping it around does you no good either. If you send the sail back, you have some pennies in your pocket to try and recover. Perhaps you could rethink the full battens or the track and get a sail without full battens or a Tides Track from Lee (or one of your other low bidders) for the $800 you will get back. That would at least get you an offshore sail and get you sailing.

Another options is sell the brand new sail on E-bay. Maybe there is a placid lake sailor with a big boat that would like a bargain on a new sail. That way you could keep your Tides Track and recoup some costs towards a new sail.

Good Luck,

MedSailor
 
#38 ·
SN as always is a good place to start when doing research for new stuff for your boat. Yes I am going to replace my main sail, and will do some looking around for what I want, as I have in the past. Hopefully I can avoid some problems.
 
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#41 ·
I went with a local sailmaker for my main about 2 years back after the old one ripped in a storm. Im a firm believer in local business support so he came measured had a beer on board and chewed the rag a bit. Went to pick up the sail at his shop in a detached garage. It was full of old and new sails but when I asked where is sewing machine, tools of the trade etc etc were. The response I got was " oh no, i dont MAKE the sails, I order them from Taiwan.. Yeah its WAY too pricey to have it made here!" I told him thank you for the sail but I will be purchasing my Jib elsewhere. Even the bag toted his company name with American Made Sails. Now had I known that I would have paid the extra couple hundred bucks and gone elsewhere because all he really did was come and take measurements which i could have easily done myself.
 
#42 ·
There was actually another local guy named Dave Balent here in Lavallette who was a great guy. Had a loft with an old 1940s sewing machine, a hole cut in the floor with a board to stand on so you worked at floor level, utter chaos of sails hanging from the rafters and all over the floor that somehow knew where EVERYTHING was. Its sad to see how people have the mind of " how little work can i actually perform while making the most profit?"
 
#43 ·
Hello everyone - been out of touch for a few days sailing up Tasmania's East coast to the Furneaux Group in Bass Strait - that's in what's called the Roaring Forties, a endless circle of ocean with an endless procession of depressions, big seas round here.

MarkSF
"What I'm uncomfortable with is the OP using this discussion forum as a proxy to put leverage on the sailmaker."

Mark, It has never been our intention to put leverage on the sailmaker. Or punish him as others have mentioned. I've said this somewhere in this thread, but we've been helped by literally thousands of others during our life afloat. There are many out there that are no so well experienced and others looking for "good deals." Jude and I just don't want them to make our mistake.

Luck66 said it, SN is a good place to to start when doing research for new stuff for your boat.

We wanted to get a discussion going to let everyone know what a lot of trouble our dealing with this loft has caused us. We're suppose to be exploring the fjords of NZ South Island right now. Instead we are heading home to fix up a sail. It is not about the money.

MedSailor
Questions to the OP, you said 3 lofts quoted you similar prices. Inquiring minds want to know, who else out there is selling sails that cheap?
Taskers and Lee Sails quoted the same or less, delivered

Advice to the OP: Send the sail back. It is absolutely clear that this sail will not suit you at all. Your options are :
1. Fix it.
2. Buy another.

Yep, going to do one of those two. Getting new prices ATM, and will have someone local look at this one. The cloth seems good. The attachments suck, and the edges are diabolical.

lancelot9898 goes to the head of the class. A picture is worth a thousand words. The sailmaker knew we sail blue water and in the big stuff. Our website is plastered with it. We told him on the phone. We sent him our latest book whose cover shows Banyandah with a smidgen of rag up, spume flying, the ocean white in a first class gale. And he made us the mainsail from hell that you'd wonder about on a lake.

blt2ski Appreciate your concern for our book sales and good name. The books are out there to entertain and help newbies organize their ships and shipboard routines. Read point one above. We actually are trying to help others here.

And that brings me to my last point - Some out there want to apply their perverse thinking to this - He's cheap, he's a scoundrel who got what he deserved. He's an extortionist trying to get a free sail. Well, we are none of those things. We are elderly folk who have sailed ocean all their lives. We have two loving sons who we raised afloat, educating them to year 10 and 11, we now have 9 grandchildren, everyone in our family lives within cooee of us. In your language that means we can shout and they'll hear.
Jude and I were in business while we got our assets up to scratch for our old age, and never had one complaint - never. We did plenty of jobs for little pay when the party did not have a lot. We figured the goodwill would help us one day, and like I said at the beginning, felt we owed big time for all the doors that have been opened for us.

This is all becoming a bit stressful for us. And seeing we're on the road again, enjoying the Good Earth, feeling her good vibes, I may not come back to visit this thread. Oh, I will start a new thread when we arrive home to let those interested know how the sail performed. So far so good, but we've only done a few hundred miles. One last word though, Buy a sail from Somerset Sails and you may regret like us.
Cheers all from down under where the wind is calling us to run free.

This cover is second edition, the first showed a smidgen of sail flying
 
#45 ·
MarkSF
"What I'm uncomfortable with is the OP using this discussion forum as a proxy to put leverage on the sailmaker."

Mark, It has never been our intention to put leverage on the sailmaker. Or punish him as others have mentioned.

[
blt2skiAnd that brings me to my last point - Some out there want to apply their perverse thinking to this - He's cheap, he's a scoundrel who got what he deserved. He's an extortionist trying to get a free sail. Well, we are none of those things. We are elderly folk who have sailed ocean all their lives. We have two loving sons who we raised afloat, educating them to year 10 and 11, we now have 9 grandchildren, everyone in our family lives within cooee of us. In your language that means we can shout and they'll hear.
Jude and I were in business while we got our assets up to scratch for our old age, and never had one complaint - never. We did plenty of jobs for little pay when the party did not have a lot. We figured the goodwill would help us one day, and like I said at the beginning, felt we owed big time for all the doors that have been opened for us.

, Buy a sail from Somerset Sails and you may regret like us.


This cover is second edition, the first showed a smidgen of sail flying
First you say this

Mark, It has never been our intention to put leverage on the sailmaker. Or punish him as others have mentioned
And then you say this

Buy a sail from Somerset Sails and you may regret like us.
To the casual observer, which I, am it seems your statements are disengenuous. Then you couple that with the FACT you ahve been on multiple sailing sites posting similar dissatisfactions with the sailmaker I would say you are in fact trying to destroy the sail makers reputation.

No doubt that the sail was not what you expected and appears to be ( just by a picture you posted) less than meeting your specs that you wanted. See heres where the problem comes in. You take absolutely no repsonsibility in this. Why did you accept this sail in the first place if it wasnt what you wanted? You went with this soley on price, a ridicuously low price to boot for what it appears you requirements were. There were other SN tested sailmakers on line that had good reputable customers. You ignored that suggestions,cause i guiess you know better ( you sail in the roaring 40s). Be thats as it may, the sailmaker is willing to make good, but you want a pound of flesh. You want to ruin him online. And you continue to spew.

I wonder if we talked to the sailmaker we wouldnt get this scenerio. He started out with a simple request for a sail. He boasted a lot about all his experience and even talked about his sailling all over creation and his book. He sent me specs and I tried to make the best sail I could to the price point he gave me, which by the way even below the bottom end. he even gave me the price of a few large mail order sail lofts and asked if I could beat them as he wanted to keep his business local. After I made his sail and shipped it he never said much initially, but then there came a while slew of messages and threats. He ran on and on I should have visted HIS site and KNOWN how he sailed and should have taken an interest in him.r the measly $1500 he was willing to spend. He wanted a Rolls Royce for Chevy prices. I tried to make good and appease him to no avail. He even threatened to ruin my name all over the internet if I didnt give him what I wanted. I offered to take back the sail or even fix things, but he wanted me to take a total loss. He accepts no responsisbility and has done as he stated by going on many sailing sites and slamming me. Thank goodness some of the other sailors on these sites can see thorugh him some. I hope he stops soon.

Sir, I question your motives. As the casual observer, you boast an awful lot about yourself. You explain how you are this poor man who just wants to sail and see the world and love it. Thats cool. And then .....oh by the way I wrote a book, and oh by the way here is the name of it...and oh by the way the second edition is out, and heres a picture of it
This cover is second edition, the first showed a smidgen of sail flying
http://jackandjude.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/WWWB_2ed.jpg

So here are the facts sir, that everyone can see without prejudice

FACT: You have accomplished what you wanted...you smeared the sailmaker on multiple sites and denigrated his name

FACT: You have managed to promote you book, without speding a dime, which I am sure the proceeds go to charity and not you (sic)

FACT: The original sailmaker offered to make good, but you refused
beacsue it may cost you shipping and by continuing your posting you could make a name for yourself and promote your book

Get going and go sailing, have fun....enjoy yourself. Fair winds and calm seas. At least till edition three of your book comes out:)
 
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