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  #21  
Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

Well, if you want to unstick something in a non-toxic bioregradeable fashion...buy a Co2 extinguisher. Ice the parts down, let 'em warm up, ice 'em down again. Repeat up to 3 times if need be, and you should be able to unstick most anything on the boat.

Anybody complains about a smell from Co2, you ice them down too.
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!

Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
None .................. 516 pounds .
WD-40 .............. 238 pounds ... $0.25
PB Blaster ......... 214 pounds .. $0.35
Liquid Wrench ... 127 pounds .. $0.21
Kano Kroil ........ 106 pounds .. $0.75
ATF-Acetone mix.. 53 pounds .. $0.10

The ATF-Acetone mix was a 50/50 mix (1 to 1 ratio).

I have lived in the cursed Rustbelt most of my life and boy I wish I had known this decades ago. It would have saved me a few hundred hours and countless busted knuckles, burns a couple black eyes and no doubt a couple broken sockets, ratchets and a breaker bar or two. UNBELIEVABLE .............. Boy I am going to pass this around to my wrench buddies, thanks.
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Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

Fast- yeah, duh, what was I thinking?
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Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!

Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
None .................. 516 pounds .
WD-40 .............. 238 pounds ... $0.25
PB Blaster ......... 214 pounds .. $0.35
Liquid Wrench ... 127 pounds .. $0.21
Kano Kroil ........ 106 pounds .. $0.75
ATF-Acetone mix.. 53 pounds .. $0.10

The ATF-Acetone mix was a 50/50 mix (1 to 1 ratio).
That test came out a while ago. After it came out I tried the ATF / Acetone mix. It works ok, and is pretty cheap per oz, but not as good as they make it sound. I have gone back to Kroil, Thrust and PB.

In the real world I still find PB to be one of the all around best, especially for the price. I also find that non "scientifically rusted" nuts, studs bolts etc. come free much better with PB or Kroil than the ATF / Acetone mix.... Kroil used to be great but the cans I get today are not what I feel it used to be, don't know why, though it is still pricey..

Last year I was doing the brake rotors on my wife's Honda Pilot. The set screws that hold the rotors on are notorious for rusting in place as are the caliper bolts. After two hours of soaking the right side in ATF / Acetone I had only stripped the Phillips heads of the set screws, even with an impact screw driver. One of them finally broke (Doh'!). I blasted the remaining two with PB and waited about 5 minutes. The one unbroken screw came right out with a quick blast of the impact driver despite having almost no grip left to it. I put my Knipex pliers on the broken one and was able to get it out. On the left side I simply sprayed with PB, waited five minutes, and both set screws backed right out with no damage to the heads..... These of course were not "scientifically rusted" on and had been naturally rusted, by real Maine winters...

Thrust is also an excellent product. Liquid Wrench makes numerous products and I find one of them to do okay but not the others. Can't remember which one I like though..

Another old timers trick is Coca Cola.. I still have my ATF / Acetone mix but find I use it pretty rarely.. I suppose if you have lots of "scientifically rusted" parts then the ATF/Acetone stuff would be good..
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

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Well Ship! On the advice of my mechanic I sprayed it liberally all over the engine and transmission.

Now what should I do? Is there something even more toxic I can use to fix the problem? i.e. the two wrongs making a right theory? Should I just mop it all up and hope for the best?

Why is it every time I hire an "expert" for my boat something bad happens....

MedSailor
Maine! I read your "$800 mistake" thread. Am I screwed also or is there anything I can do to reverse the damage?

Also, I will be taking my propeller shaft out in a month come haulout. Is the transmission seal easier to replace with the shaft out?

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  #26  
Old 04-06-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

For the record, I take back EVERYTHING bad I said about Kroll oil. The stuff is magic! The smell (which does smell like simple green to me) does disappear in a day or few, depending on how much you use.

I was in the yard yesterday beating on some rusted together parts with a sledge. They were winning. I decided (since the can was within reach) that it was worth a try. SECONDS LATER the rusted parts were yielding to the mighty blows of the sledge. Absolutely brilliant!

Also, other parts that were rusted together, that the yard quoted me TEN HOURS to get apart (and another mechanic walked away from) came apart with little resistance after two applications of the magic oil.

Now as long as it hasn't eaten my rear seal to my transmission, I'll be happy.

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Last edited by MedSailor; 04-06-2013 at 11:59 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-07-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

I too use a lot of PB. I like the long range of the stream, its accuracy and the way the foam sticks onto the object. Most any of these will work given time and the right technique.
I like to start when I can a week in advance. If possible to reach and in do so take a dremel wire wheel, I love those little 1" wire wheels especially for cleaning electrical posts / terminals . They work good on small nuts too but a 4" grinder with wire wheel does better if there is room. Knock the loose stuff off and get the rust swollen bolt head back to size then give it a shot. Give it a shot every day or so whatever along the way and also some sharp raps with a hammer or punch if you can reach it. Keep the penetrant on there doing this. When the day arrives put a good quality socket, and I still much prefer 6 points, and breaker bar and rap it a few times. It should give and often a good wrench will work better as the breaker bar and its connection tend to suck up some of your raps. It should move, if it doesn't try tightening it a tad. If it tightens a tad you're home free. Some more juice and back and forth wiggling will free it, just don't get too mean with it right off.
Another trick I use if I can is to leave the offending nut / bolt head sitting in a puddle. of oil. Try mastic or even tape, anything to keep the oil sitting there in quantity if you can. Mastic comes in rolls of small ribbons ( they used to use it to seal between car door panels, fenders ect so auto body supply stores have it) and a roll will last a lifetime. Surrounding the nut in a puddle of oil really helps if you can manage it. Even a dam of duct tape under a horizontal mounted bolt keeps some in place.
Whatever you do when it's out if the bolts are nasty/ pitted try if you can to replace with new. Just make sure you get properly rated ones and not hardware store bin nuts and bolts. If you have to use a torch an old timers book says you HAVE to use coffee. Cherry the offending nut up then use the secret ingredient, coffee. It has an ingredient in it that keeps you from getting carried away and banging on it when still hot. It's called TIME. By the time you go made the coffee and drank it it will have cooled enough to beat on without damaging anything.
A can of "Never SEIZE" lasts for years, use it where ever you can / should because the next guy (probably you) will thank you for it
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  #28  
Old 04-07-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

Welcome to the cult of true believers, MedSailor. If you would step this way, to the rear, we have some saffron robes you may be interested in. You get a 10% discount on future reorders if you agree to wear the saffron robes.

Amazing stuff, isn't it?

driz, some of the big ox stores have taken to hiding a "tool chest" on the shelves, with metric and stainless hardware jumbled up in it. Once you crack the code and go pearl diving, sometimes there is genuine good hardware in there.

And then there's Ace Hardware, that has little trays of all sorts of good hardware if you ask them where the adult section is. Most peculiar, because if you order from Ace's web site "ship to store, free!" the prices are often only 1/2 or 2/3 of the store's price. Same product, same pickup location, often 33% to 50% off if you wait the three days for the web order. Go figure.
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Old 04-07-2013
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I blasted the remaining two with PB and waited about 5 minutes. The one unbroken screw came right out with a quick blast of the impact driver despite having almost no grip left to it. I put my Knipex pliers on the broken one and was able to get it out. On the left side I simply sprayed with PB, waited five minutes, and both set screws backed right out with no damage to the heads..... These of course were not "scientifically rusted" on and had been naturally rusted, by real Maine winters...
Since you run into rusted parts on regular basis an have a history of doing practical science perhaps you would be willing to do an experiment.

If your experience is the same as mine we typically find that of several fasteners that are rusted tight often only one or two are really stuck.

If you would for next few projects use pb for half the fasteners and the homemade mix for the other half then the possibility of accidentally getting the easy one every time would be statistically reduced.

The fact that pb blaster worked on the same fastener after the acetone-oil treatment is evidence that pb works better but their is still the possibility that another AO treatment would have worked just as well.

Then again you may just want to get your work done and not amuse us.
Just a thought.
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Re: Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!

[
driz, some of the big ox stores have taken to hiding a "tool chest" on the shelves, with metric and stainless hardware jumbled up in it. Once you crack the code and go pearl diving, sometimes there is genuine good hardware in there.

And then there's Ace Hardware, that has little trays of all sorts of good hardware if you ask them where the adult section is. Most peculiar, because if you order from Ace's web site "ship to store, free!" the prices are often only 1/2 or 2/3 of the store's price. Same product, same pickup location, often 33% to 50% off if you wait the three days for the web order. Go figure.[/QUOTE]

Oh boy pearl diving in the metric/us mixed mess, pleeeeeaaasssse. If there is one thing I detest more than metric it's a mix of the vermin. The only way I find to get a proper metric is to take the old one right in my hand to the store, ughhhh. That is just one of the reasons I try to avoid American cars. Metric sucks but they almost exclusively use 12 10 `13 14 17, with little else mainly so they are fairly easy to decipher standing on your head. US cars are splattered with a closely matched mix of everything under the sun. Add some rust and who knows what they are till you round off the bolt.. It's a good thing that boats are simpler for all our sakes. I heard that Mercury is now making their outboards in compatible bolts meaning 13mm / 1/2 14/mm 9/16. Too bad no one else does. Nothing like good old Coarse or fine threads, so simple.
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