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  #31  
Old 02-23-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob142 View Post
The two loudest sounds are the gun that goes " Click" when you expect a "Bang" and
the gun that goes "Bang" when you were expecting a "Click"
I'm going to have to get that tattooed somewhere!
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  #32  
Old 02-23-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

There is nothing inherently dangerous about a gun. What's dangerous are people. I was raised hunting, trained in the military in the Vietnam era with weapons including light and heavy weapons, later as a policeman, then again in another military service. I now carry a concealed weapons permit. So my having a weapon on me including on board or anywhere else is not dangerous for anyone but a bad guy. Why anyone would refuse to sail with someone trained in the use of firearms is something I'd respect but not understand.

If your country allows you the legal right to own a firearm then you are entitled to have it on board. If in the water of a state then you must adhere to their laws. Not all states reciprocate with another. It's your responsibility to know which do. Most countries in their waters only require specific conditions for you to legally have the weapon in their waters which may include lock and key or temporary relinquishing of your weapon on declaration.

Having an unloaded weapon is not generally a good idea unless necessary for safety on the firing line, inspection, handling by another, in an area required by law, etc. There is little benefit otherwise to have a weapon for use not locked and loaded excluding a few instances. I won't own a gun without a safety so have never had a Glock although if on active duty that would be my choice. There is no danger when a weapon is on safe to not have your finger in the trigger guard. Generally you release the safety with the thumb of the hand on the grip. You should know if a round is chambered and if the gun is on safe or not. You should understand when it may be necessary to unsafe the weapon and when you may fire in defense of life or grave bodily injury to yourself or another whether stand your ground or the castle doctrine.

Anyone not trained elsewhere should have safety training as well as learn to fire their weapon accurately and safely. You should be able to unholster your weapon and fire accurately and quickly.

If not carrying then the weapon needs to be secured safely esp if there are children on board. Depending on their ages then the weapon should be locked away or have a trigger guard. Safety, safety, safety.
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  #33  
Old 02-24-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jobberone View Post
There is no danger when a weapon is on safe to not have your finger in the trigger guard. Generally you release the safety with the thumb of the hand on the grip.
Thanks for commenting. Your the type of person that I had in mind when I asked the original question about what I needed to know about guns aboard a boat.
You are obviously very experienced and safety oriented. If invited their is no reason in my opinion I should miss out on boat trip because of your gun.
As you mentioned not everyone would make that same choice and that is their right.


Would you explain the comment you made quoted above. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you said.
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  #34  
Old 02-24-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I believe the USCG does or can enforce local laws, such as BUI.
I did some internet research and it seems like that may be true.
It is a shame that the laws are so mangled on this subject.
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  #35  
Old 02-24-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
David

I will only post this because you live around here and my son is a assistant district attorney with a pistol permit

REALLY REALLY few people have anything beyond a sportsman handgun permit on the NY SIDE of the sound which allows carry to the range and home


While there are various bussiness carry and security guard levels for a hand gun this is a REALLY LOCKED DOWN ITEM IN THE LIS AREA AND THEY DO NOT HONNOR OTHER AREAS PERMITS
I do know that NYC is very locked down. A young man I know about 16 was walking in nyc after a race and had his rigging knife in his front pants pocket. Only the clip was showing and he got a ticket and had to hire a lawyer and return to the city and pay a fine.
So thanks for the comment, I would be very leery of legal traps in NY too.
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  #36  
Old 02-24-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

First you say this...then you go into two long ass diatribes on the intenet. Seems like you dont value your own advice



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinook View Post
My opinion, take it for what it's worth (not much):



Legally? That depends on the state. I also don't know what will happen if you get boarded by the CG. Personally, I'd prefer they keep it on their person, I don't make a habit of screwing with other people's guns. If they are irresponsible with it on your boat, it may come back to bite you and not them (or both of you). Keeping it locked is your safest bet, but depending on where you are, it may not be legal (IANAL), BUT...

There is something called the "Firearm Owners Protection Act" that allows safe harbor for people traveling through states with weapons. There are requirements on storage and limitations on how it applies. I suggest you do your own research on it to see if it applies and how to abide by it.

As far as safety goes, that's probably the best bet. I wouldn't worry about unloading it, depending on the type of gun, that's a matter of preference. Unlike what's displayed in movies, guns don't magically go off when dropped or hit. Are you safer to unload it? Probably, but I wouldn't consider it a big concern.



FOPA has requirements to be met if you aren't going to be arrested for having a firearm in another state. Read to see if it applies here and how to abide by it.

For safety, I wouldn't worry about them being together or even loaded.



This is a basic safety rule, I usually keep it alongside the slide on an auto and down the front of the trigger guard in a revolver.



"Don't be a dumb***"



Make sure you establish ground rules for this before they board, so everyone is on the same page.



Yes, they should make sure it's safe before handing it over to you.



If they are unstable about a gun, I'd consider them unstable and not want them aboard anyway, gun or not.



Not necessarily the floor, just a safe direction. Keep in mind though that bullets can travel far and through many surfaces (including drywall and fiberglass), although with handguns their efficiency diminishes with distance and rather quickly.

Go through extreme pains to make sure the gun is unloaded and safe before you handle it. The general rule is to keep it pointed in a safe direction (e.g. not at people). This begs the question, what are you doing with the gun that would require you to handle it loaded? If you are unloading it, keep your finger off the trigger, drop the magazine and eject the round in the slide, leave the slide open, pick up the round, and store it back in the magazine. If you are doing anything else (e.g. dry firing), you should probably do it somewhere else if there is nowhere safe to point it and do it at. I also can't imagine anything else you'd want to do with a gun on a boat, aside from unload and store it or retrieve it. I wouldn't worry about pointing it at the floor or side of the hull while I go through this maneuver, just be aware of where you are pointing it and what is behind what you are pointing it at.



Depends on the gun. Some are made for more extreme conditions and will not rust easily, just make sure you keep all the moving parts oiled and swab oil down the barrel (this is the most common place for rust and pitting due to corrosion). There are usually common wear spots on guns and you can tell where they are after about 500 rds through the gun, you'll see the finish starting to wear off in certain areas, be sure to oil those really well. I'd also rub down the entire gun with a silicon rag.

I'd be more cautious about taking older steel framed guns, though. I've seen some revolvers rust really quickly even on land.
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  #37  
Old 02-24-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Thanks for commenting. Your the type of person that I had in mind when I asked the original question about what I needed to know about guns aboard a boat.
You are obviously very experienced and safety oriented. If invited their is no reason in my opinion I should miss out on boat trip because of your gun.
As you mentioned not everyone would make that same choice and that is their right.


Would you explain the comment you made quoted above. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you said.
I don't normally put my finger on the trigger unless I've pulled the gun. I don't pull it unless I'm in a hostile situation. So I agree normally you don't need to have your finger on the trigger because your weapon should be holstered or put away. However, there is nothing inherently dangerous about having your finger in the guard since you should have your weapon on safety or there should not be a round chambered however you carry. That is not true of every weapon since some do not have a safety.

If you feel threatened however your weapon should be out, finger on the guard or even on the trigger, and the weapon should be either ready to fire or you should be familiar enough to release the safety very quickly. It depends on the threat level. You should know if the weapon is locked and loaded and ready to fire or not. If your weapon is pulled and you are not threatened then it should be either to put away, clean, inspect or to hand to another. At that point the weapon should be cleared generally no magazine in the gun and no round chambered. There are exceptions esp at home. I have a weapon on my bed locked and loaded on safe unless I have company. If adult then the weapon is hidden. If children then the weapon is cleared and put out of reach so there can be NO accidents.
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  #38  
Old 02-24-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

For the OP's benefit to understand the different firearms his friends may bring aboard, I don't see much difference between a Glock and a revolver, in terms of safety. Neither have a safety. In fact, the Glock can never be left with the hammer fully cocked (internally) and a revolver could. You see the hammer cocked on a revolver to make it scary in silly hollywood movies all the time. That weapon can now accidentally fire, if dropped or jarred. Until the trigger is pulled on a Glock, which has its own safety mechanism, the firing pin can not access the round internally.

As Joe points out, he would carry a Glock on Active Duty. The reason for that is the number of times a trigger has been pulled by an LEO during a terrifying situation only to find the safety on. Imagine that you find yourself in that one is a million situation, where your life is being threatened and you had the opportunity to skillfully pull your weapon to defend yourself and it won't fire.

Glock for me. (although, I will always have a fondness for the 1911 and love my P226). I have a concealed permit. However, outside the military and an occasional hike through bear country, I've never actually carried one in public. I thoroughly understand the infinitesimal likelihood of needing it, at least in places I find myself going.

I would never bring one aboard your boat. It might be aboard mine or it might not.
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  #39  
Old 02-24-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

Thank you all. This has been an enlightening discussion. I believe I have a somewhat more through and nuanced view of the subject and appreciate everyone's contribution.
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  #40  
Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Different Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Can you think of any downside to getting a state pistol permit?
Nope.

That was an easy one.
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