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  #1  
Old 02-25-2013
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Cost for repairs...

I am lookIng at some used boats about 25 feet. Approximately what is the cost to:

Replace standing rigging

Haul out and bottom paint

Replace running rigging

Assuming I do the maintenance myself. What is the greatest cost in each? Is it the supplies or the haul out and dry dock time? What costs most in standing, turnbuckles or wire? Running the cost is mostly the line right? This way if I find a great deal I'll have an idea if it is a great deal or if I would spend more one replacing things than if I got a boat with it done.

How often should each of the three items be done?
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Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
I am lookIng at some used boats about 25 feet. Approximately what is the cost to:
This is going to be tough, as there are many variables.

Quote:
Replace standing rigging
With stainless? Not all 25 ft boats have the same amount of wire, so this is variable. Expect low to mid single digit thousands to have a rigger do it and retune. Less, if you can do it all yourself, but this is one for the pros if you do not know what you're doing.

Quote:
Haul out and bottom paint
Serious differences by yard. I will toss out $20/ft for first coat and $10/ft for second, etc. However, it will be substantially more if you do not know what is on there now and had to remove it all to start from scratch. You can do it yourself, if you have a yard that will permit it. Even then, you typically require environmental mitigation: tarping, dust collecting sanders, etc.

Quote:
Replace running rigging
Again, highly depends on the quality of the line you want. 50 cents per foot, up to several dollars. No reason to pay anyone else to do this. Assuming what you have are proper working lengths, just remove them by running messenger lines in their place and have them duplicated.

Quote:
......I would spend more one replacing things than if I got a boat with it done.
There are no exceptions to this rule, you are always more cost efficient to buy a boat with these things in good shape already.

Quote:
How often should each of the three items be done?
When they need it. )

Again, it will depend on your usage and care. On average most will bottom paint every couple of year, but some will do a really good job on the first with multiple coats and then just top coat each year. Standing rigging should last a decade or more. Running rigging will depend on the quality of what you buy, how often you use it and the performance you expect from it. Average, 4 or 5 years for a cruiser on lines like jib sheets. Every other for a racer. Less used lines will last longer.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

Excellent answer Minne.

I was going to say: $2K, $2K, $2K, every 2 years for the paint, and 10 years for the rest...
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Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post


There are no exceptions to this rule, you are always more cost efficient to buy a boat with these things in good shape already.
Can I get an "Amen"?
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Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

I agree with everything Minnewaska said. I can also appreciate wanting to understand the costs, especially when some of the things might not NEED to be done this season (when you're already putting out acquisition cost money) but probably in the next 2-4 years.

Painting the bottom isn't too costly - most places charge about $200 to haul the boat long enough for you to paint it. It probably helps to know that certain kinds of bottom paints need to be back in the water fairly quickly (within hours of the paint being applied, not weeks/months later). The paint itself is going to cost you about the same - $125-200 per gallon, and you'll probably need at least one gallon.

Standing rigging will vary - do you need new turnbuckles and other hardware, or just the stainless steel rope/cable itself? As others have said, this is one job I'd leave to the pro's, and I'm an avid DIY'er.

I replaced the main halyard and jib halyard, and added a spinnaker halyard, on my Catalina 25 last year. If I recall correctly, I think that cost me about $250-300, including the fids, whipping cord, etc. that I needed to properly splice in some of the components. I re-used some of the hardware since that still looked to be in good shape.

Hope this helps!
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Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

I agree with most everything others have said. What I will add is this, if you can do the bottom painting yourself, do it. Seems one is paying lawyer rates for bottom painters.
When I replaced the standing rigging on my Hunter 25 I sent it down to a place in Miami,
and got back nice stuff. Don't remember the name of the shop. Also know what you want for the wire and specify it. Not all wire is the same. As far as the running rigging goes, piece of cake, get yourself info on splicing, a set of fids, and some whipping cord. Bang done, finished. Once the new running rigging is done, tape one end to the existing halyard, then hoist the new up and over the sheave.
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Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

If you do replace the running rigging without using a messenger, just make sure you run it in the correct direction. A messenger line allows you to pull out the old halyard (or whatever it is) and keep any hardware attached. Otherwise, if you're cutting off the old hardware, make sure you cut off the splice, too, before you try to pull it back through the masthead sheave. Depending on the boat and the line, the splice may make things thick enough that the halyard gets stuck.
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Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainmeme View Post
.... Seems one is paying lawyer rates for bottom painters.
....
That's a fact. Drives me a bit nutty to pay the same hourly rate for an unskilled bottom painter as I pay for diesel work. Last year, I unwittingly paid $85 per hour to get the hull waxed. Came out great. Not $1,400 great.

I suppose the yard would argue that they should charge more for the skilled, if they charge less for the unskilled.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
Replace standing rigging
Check Catalina Direct for an idea on prices for 22' and 25' boats. I don't know what models you are looking at now, but this will give you an idea of what the rigging will cost on this size of boat.

The boats that you are looking at sound like they will likely have tabernacles where a couple of people can drop the mast. That will allow you to replace the rigging yourself. Paying a yard to use a crane to drop the mast and restep it later will cost you at least $300, probably more like $450.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
Haul out and bottom paint
For Seattle look up the CSR Marine prices. All of the boat yards around here charge about the same amount. For a 25' boat it'll be hard to do it for under $1000. You'll need a little over 1 gallon of paint for most fin keel boats.

You can also check Canal Boatyard, they are a bit more DIY friendly but pricing is similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
Replace running rigging
This will vary a lot depending on the quality of line that you use. I probably spent about $600-$700 on line and more on blocks replacing the running rigging on my Catalina 25. I used moderate cost line (like Samson XLS) for most of it, but the halyards are lower and twice as expensive XLS Extra (it has 1/3rd of the stretch).

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
Assuming I do the maintenance myself. What is the greatest cost in each? Is it the supplies or the haul out and dry dock time? What costs most in standing, turnbuckles or wire? Running the cost is mostly the line right? This way if I find a great deal I'll have an idea if it is a great deal or if I would spend more one replacing things than if I got a boat with it done.
Most of this can be done on the water, so the greatest cost is in materials. Yard time for haul out and bottom paint is usually free if they do the painting or fairly nominal if you do it. The actual haul out will be more expensive than you think, there is a roughly $80 environmental fee for hauling boats at any of the yards that I know of in WA State. Haul, power wash, and environmental fee is around $300ish.

Finding a boat where most of this has been done recently will be a lot cheaper. People charge a little more for such boats, but not enough more to cover their costs.

I think it would be hard to get away for much under $2500 for everything that you've mentioned here, and that is with doing most of the work yourself and using fairly basic materials. High end turnbuckles, low stretch line, 2 coats of good bottom paint, using a crane to drop the mast are all going to raise the prices.
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Old 02-25-2013
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Re: Cost for repairs...

For a 25 foot boat, painting it yourself is a no-brainer (if your yard will allow it). Over 30 feet, the surface area gets large enough that you may want to hire out the work.
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