Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not) - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-04-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 6,202
Thanks: 52
Thanked 93 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

After reading the thread and others about "Rudder lost at sea" It has me thinking about build vs buy Em Rudders. (ER)

First search took me to Rigrite and they have some pretty beefy Pintles and Gudgeons, tiller heads etc. How beefy is needed?

Length of a E R is surely a problem, Then there are boats that have small high above the water line transoms or double ended.

Example; my Oday 30 (not likely she will ever see seas outside of the Chessy) to hang one on the transom. that's easily 3ft from the water line.. then the actual blade in the water part.... 6-7 ft bottom to tiller head? The the tiller will hit the wheel since it's close to the transom. Another problem; the weight of such a rudder.. I know the one on my H23 was heavy and that wasn't very large.

The spinnaker or pole type ER could be included in this discussion too.

Anyways... thought this could be a fun discussion without the drama on a discussion where someone actually lost one.
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My boat is for sale.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 03-04-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 690
Thanks: 6
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 9
knuterikt is on a distinguished road
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

Have you seen this, good article - not mine
emergency rudder


Last edited by knuterikt; 03-04-2013 at 09:37 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 03-04-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 6,202
Thanks: 52
Thanked 93 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuterikt View Post
Have you seen this
emergency rudder

Thanks Knut! Impressive! Long like I guessed!
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My boat is for sale.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 03-04-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 690
Thanks: 6
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 9
knuterikt is on a distinguished road
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
Thanks Knut! Impressive! Long like I guessed!
Not mine, but two examples on how it can be done
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 03-04-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 695
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Frogwatch is on a distinguished road
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

My emergency rudder would consist of the two 8' dinghy oars tightly lashed together. To one oar, I'd screw one of my spare companionway boards. one end of the oars would then be lashed to the base of a stern stanchion allowing it to move back and forth.
(this is for my 8000 lb 28' S2).
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 03-04-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,997
Thanks: 29
Thanked 55 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

We carry 3 6 foot section of 2X6 that we use as fenderboards when we go to the LI sound. I am thinking thats the beginning of the shaft for the "oar in the water". In a quick fix Maybe Carrying an 8-10 foot section of pipe or two smaller sections which could be bolted together
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 03-04-2013
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,557
Thanks: 114
Thanked 64 Times in 63 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

What is not documented very well, or at least I am not aware of it, is how the rudders failed.

Denise, our O'days have a 2+" stainless steel tube that runs through the rudder tube and into the rudder itself. Welded to this post should be a stainless steel frame. This assembly is sometimes referred to as a "Flag." I did some googling and found a pic to give you an idea; Note that this pic has two shafts, because the guy built a rudder and a skeg as one unit, then cut them apart.

The flag is then set in foam to provide increased surface area. The whole thing is wrapped in Fiberglass, and that's your rudder.

There is also a good overview of the process at the Foss Foam website, here.

A problem with our rudders, and I believe that this applies to most spade rudders, is that the rudder connects to the hull right at the waterline. There is a lot of stress on the rudder in this area, and the fiberglass shell therefore tends to crack right here. This, in turn allows water to enter the shell, where it sits and stagnates, and causes crevice corrosion of the stainless.

I believe that the vessels that have experienced failure, did so because of shoddy repair to a damaged rudder. Welding stainless is not the same as welding mild steel, and without using the right tools (TIG welder) and correct welding rods, what looks like a good weld will soon fail after the rudder is placed back into service.

When I pulled my rudder last year, I cleaned out a groove around the rudder post (that stainless steel tube) and filled it with 5200.

Here is a "before" picture;
The red stuff seen in this pic is not corrosion, but is actually grease.

I then dropped a HDMPE spacer on top, and allowed it to set in the 5200. I believe that the 5200 has the flexibility and the compressive strength to resist cracking, and will keep water out.

Regardless, I would either spring the $3K for a new rudder, or build my own, if I were to make an open ocean run.

I would also consider through bolting large (5") stainless washers through the rudder post to either side of my rudder to substantially "beef it up."
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105 Certified Instructor - Also certified in Recreational Marine Electrical Systems

Last edited by eherlihy; 03-04-2013 at 10:57 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 03-04-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 6,202
Thanks: 52
Thanked 93 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

Yes, nice photo there E, I'm sure our boats would "snap" off at the hull, and that is where the stress would take it's toll.

For as often that rudders seem to fail it does seem that spade rudders are most susceptible. "Watched it float away" has to be painful.. but most would sink is my assumption.

a ER board longer would make up for width imho, and be easier to turn. although the side way forces would bend it for sure.

It's not an easy fix for a short term Emergency situation.. something that also seems to totally overlooked by open water and "mature" sailors
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My boat is for sale.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 03-04-2013
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,557
Thanks: 114
Thanked 64 Times in 63 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

Thanks... I think....

I believe that when these rudders fail, that the rudder post is left sticking out of the hull, and the rudder, sans metal frame, floats away. It may have been possible to bolt, or clamp a locker door onto the remaining rudder post (of course you would have to go for a swim to do so) and fashion this as a temporary rudder...

But then you would need calm seas, and a young whippersnapper () to try such a feat.
chef2sail likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105 Certified Instructor - Also certified in Recreational Marine Electrical Systems
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 03-04-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 6,202
Thanks: 52
Thanked 93 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Re: Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not)

A ER that had a post to fit inside the broken off post could work... but the stub would be out of round and then there would be the prob of locking it to the old...
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My boat is for sale.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New kind of emergency rudder Bene505 Gear & Maintenance 19 12-07-2010 11:59 AM
M-RUD emergency rudder rdw Gear & Maintenance 0 11-01-2010 09:03 PM
Emergency Rudder Post Fiberglass Cracking SVArgo Pacific Seacraft 0 08-09-2010 09:24 AM
Help to find/build/buy emergency tiller for P34 bobdamiano Gear & Maintenance 1 06-09-2010 04:01 PM
Emergency rudder ideas ? jbrockpiano Gear & Maintenance 11 12-04-2007 07:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:11 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.