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post #11 of 48 Old 03-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

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The port side would likely end up 'out of the way'.. the starboard one not so much, but even so do you get people sitting directly in line with the binnacle? that's about where the cleat may end up on the stbd side..

In any event, I don't think leaning against the cleat would be horrible, with any clothing on it may be hardly noticeable, in summer perhaps more of an issue. Your crew should be on the coaming or the rail anyway!

Another alternative would be to mount your cleats on the outboard side of the coaming, the 'ramp' lead would probably be OK and the seating would be unobstructed, but it's a lousy reach to cleat and uncleat, esp when seriously powered up.

If you think the 'cleat in the back' is a big deal, then fallard's suggestion probably makes most sense.. As the helmsman you may have an easier reach for the release, and could assist the grinder in cleating once sheeted in... Not so great for steady trimming, but even then the trimmer probably has the sheet in hand....
All very good points, Faster. If we are doing any serious sailing, the crew and "rail meat" will be up on the coaming or forward on the rail. But sometimes against my most fervent wishes, there might be the less experienced crew member or two that happens aboard.

Do you see a reason that something like the attached photo wouldn't work? My drawing skills are not up to par, so I photoshopped it. The port side angle would be adjusted for a better angle off the winch, of course, but it would lead the lines aft a bit more.
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post #12 of 48 Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

No reason why that wouldn't work.. Just slightly less than a full wrap on stbd.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

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post #13 of 48 Old 03-07-2013
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Mine are on the side of the coaming but straight out from the right side of the drum. they work OK and cleated by the winch grinder. when one person does the grinding and tailing, it would be hard to cleat at an angle, you would be trying to pull away to the side of the winch while trying to cleat and this would be hard.
pulling at 90 degree to the coming gives you the best leverage and support when heeled
the release can be done from any position
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post #14 of 48 Old 03-07-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

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Mine are on the side of the coaming but straight out from the right side of the drum. they work OK and cleated by the winch grinder. when one person does the grinding and tailing, it would be hard to cleat at an angle, you would be trying to pull away to the side of the winch while trying to cleat and this would be hard.
pulling at 90 degree to the coming gives you the best leverage and support when heeled
the release can be done from any position
Good point Ovbd. I wasn't fully considering the leverage angle. Yours are placed in the middle of the cockpit seating as well. This might be the best approach. This way, the crew has a good angle to the cam cleat and if I am single handing I can still cleat off with the horn cleat near the wheel. It looks like you have a 15 degree angled riser for them. Do you think this is necessary/helpful?

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post #15 of 48 Old 03-07-2013
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

The best solution, also most expensive, is to get self tailers. Beyond that, I think you're better off with the horn cleats you've got. I used them with same setup as yours for many years. The advantage to a horn over a cam cleat is that you don't have to "pull through" the cleat. You just hook the line under the horn and the tension is off. With a cam, you've got to take "one more turn" with the winch as you're pulling the line through the cam. Sometimes that "one more turn" just isn't there. Also, releasing a short length of sheet in order to trim is much easier with your existing cleats.
I think you'll have trouble getting a clean lead from the winch to the cleat on the side of the combing- it's going to rub.
Also, pulling down through that cam is a terrible angle to get any force.
Personally, I'd keep your current cleats in place and save up for self tailers.
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post #16 of 48 Old 03-07-2013
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Off topic but wow...I think our boats are sisters. I have a US27 and the cockpit and hardware look identical. I thought about grabbing a couple of self-tailing winches from the consignment store but figure I will give it a season and see if it is an issue.

I think a little research on Pearson vs US Yachts is in order for me now (for curiosity's sake) with the similarities.
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

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Off topic but wow...I think our boats are sisters. I have a US27 and the cockpit and hardware look identical. I thought about grabbing a couple of self-tailing winches from the consignment store but figure I will give it a season and see if it is an issue.

I think a little research on Pearson vs US Yachts is in order for me now (for curiosity's sake) with the similarities.
Yes, the 84-85 Pearson 27 was the same mold as the '81-83 US27 from what I can gather. Pearson bought it and made a couple of dozen at least (my hull is #24) over a couple of years. In 86 they switched to another design and still called it the P27 just to add to the confusion. Here is the thread I started when I first bought her: First and new (to us) boat! 1985 Pearson 27 Hull #24

There is one other US27 sailor on here, US27inKS, or something like that.

Have you upgraded any of the hardware on your boat? The horn cleats behind the wheel are just a little inconvenient to me but I am not ready to drop $1800 on self tailing winches yet. I would rather put that money into new sails.

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post #18 of 48 Old 03-07-2013
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Self tailers are your best option and will make you happier in the long run. Plus they are more expensive and that is how we, as boat owners, roll... Make us proud and bust out another thousand.

Or, you could consider installing an inexpensive set of jam cleats where your horn cleats are (hopefully using the existing holes).

Then move your existing horn cleats aft for your dock lines.

Or, forward of the winches to make it easier for crew when tacking.

When I say "jam cleats", I mean the ones that look similar to horn cleats...
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

or move the horn cleats aft - with appropriate backing, and put the cams on blocks of teak to improve the angle.
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Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Right now nobody (except maybe the helmsman) is likely to have to 'sit' on a coaming-top cleat... I think I'd keep it that way if possible. A cam cleat in the back once in a while is better than a horn or jam cleat up your you-know-what

Ron

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