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  #21  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

Bill, you can always call the tech guys at West Systems. They'll work with you on the phone, and even give you a bill of materials and cost estimate based on their products at retail prices. Whether you do it that way or not is of course your option, but you can't get a better realuty check on the job.
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  #22  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

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Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
Bob;;
That's the original "stitch 'n'glue"!!!
Looks like bad Russian hair transplant. You essentially have to cheesewire the whole section of inner skin off, one linear inch at a time. I'm a leeeetle worried about losing that skin-to-skin linkage -- but thickened epoxy is pretty awesome stuff, and the repaired sections will all have solid core areas under the hardware to tie everything together. My shop has a startling pile of 1" phenolic slab lurking in the corner; roughly one zillion tons compressive strength. Its weight may cause the boat to turtle, but by Jove! those genoa tracks, they not be leakin'.
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

This made sense to me after I thought about it more. I still have to open it up (this weekend is still the plan) but I think I will be plywood longitudinally down the center and through and solidly bonded to the mast step and contour-core or similar on the flanks.

The mystery that I fear has no answer other than exploration - is where to cut on the sides. There is no information on the boats. They either all sunk or were scraped or there were just not very many of them in the first place. Makes it sort of more scarey and fun in a weird way, and hopefully all the more reason to go to the trouble to do it in the first place.

I am attaching a picture of the boat at the repair site.

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
That is an extremely tedious way to core a laminate - opening up all the cut lines in balsa and coating them with epoxy resin accomplishes the same thing I.E. sealing the individual blocks, but is a LOT faster, easier, uses less of that expensive resin and is lighter.

Using plywood as core in high load areas, such as winch and cleat mounting areas is common practice but balsa or foam is better for large areas of diffuse loading.
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

Neat-looking boat. The flush deck makes it resemble the SJ21 Mk2, Cal25, and Ensenada 20, with a little Dovekie tossed in. Personally, I ain't a fan of plywood as a core material. Neither flesh nor fowl. It's heavier than balsa without much more compressive strength. If water gets in -- even a drop -- it wicks sideways far worse than end-grain balsa. If you want pure compression resistance (like under the mast plate), I'd advise G10 or phenolic. You can make your own, if needed. Otherwise, balsa everywhere with properly over-filled penetrations.

Wet balsa can be dried, if it hasn't rotted; it takes a very long time. Foam is much quicker and easier to dry out & usually stays sound unless freeze-thaw has caused it to delaminate. Wet plywood is a total loss, always.

Have you pulled a portlight to see if the core runs down the coachroof sides? Often on these smaller boats, only the deck itself was cored, out to maybe 1" from the turn of the roof. That hull-to-deck joint looks in the photo like yer basic shoebox overlap, covered with a rubrail. Often the joint was just riveted or screwed together -- no putty, no glue, no nuffin. It is not unheard of for people to remove the entire deck for recoring, flipping it over in the yard.
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Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

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Originally Posted by BillOcala View Post
This made sense to me after I thought about it more. I still have to open it up (this weekend is still the plan) but I think I will be plywood longitudinally down the center and through and solidly bonded to the mast step and contour-core or similar on the flanks.

The mystery that I fear has no answer other than exploration - is where to cut on the sides. There is no information on the boats. They either all sunk or were scraped or there were just not very many of them in the first place. Makes it sort of more scarey and fun in a weird way, and hopefully all the more reason to go to the trouble to do it in the first place.

I am attaching a picture of the boat at the repair site.
That will be a pretty easy job - it's essentially a flush deck, like I did. I would recommend you just accept that you will have to refinish the deck with Kiwigrip or similar and do your exploring with a drill or hole saw.

Sound the deck with a hard plastic hammer to find the extent of the rot - mark the perimeters with pencil and then test drill. Obviously don't drill through the bottom skin - you will feel when you are through to it. Keep moving until you are comfortable you have discovered and marked everything then start cutting away the top skin. I used thin cutoff wheels in a 5" angle grinder. Have a shop-vac on hand and hold the hose next to the cut point - it will cut down massively on the itching. Also, wear a mask & safety glasses. Gloves and long sleeves taped to your wrists help as well - LOTS of glass dust (AKA itching powder) will be created.

I started out just following the pencil lines, whichever way they ran but quickly realized it was better and easier to square up the cut lines, even if it meant removing some good core - the balsa is "square" so it's easier to cut & place into "square" areas of deck.

I agree with BobM - I'd forget plywood and use composite if you are nervous about compressive strength. That boat is small enough that it won't be a problem though, even under the mast step - the loads just aren't that great.

Be sure to overdrill any holes you drill and fill the hole with thickened resin then re-drill the correct fastener size through the solid epoxy.
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Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

One more thing re: where to cut on the sides. Make your cut far enough inboard to leave sufficient width to bevel the skin to get a proper bond on the new top skin - I used a 10-1 bevel. 1/4" top skin tapered out 2 1/2" on all sides.

If you find voids outside of your cut, clean then out with a hook - bent coathanger or some such, clean the area with an acetone soaked rag and then fill them with thick, non-runny glass filled resin.
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Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

if you decide to do the deck then ditch the rotary grinder and use an oscillating saw . way less dust Oscillating Multifunction Power Tool w/ Variable Speed
me I say ditch the boat and find another to put on the trailer. the materials to do the deck will cost more than getting a different boat.
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  #28  
Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

I am really glad I posted here - you guys have already saved me from a lot of mistakes. I am sure I will find new ways to go wrong - I am real good about that! Yeah it is an unusual boat, I had never seen one before - the big cockpit and the boat being "beach-able" is really great for what I have in mind.
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Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

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Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
If you want pure compression resistance (like under the mast plate),
That is one place where I am lucky - the mast step is solid fiberglass over a stainless steel post below.
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

if you have solid glass on the mast step, an companion way and a hatch. how much deck is left? are you sure it all needs to be recored. it looks like it has a lot of curve which should help make it stiff without a core. I have repaired many delamed small boat decks by using the plug method. the plug method is where you drill a pattern of 1/4" holes through the one skin and with a special L shaped tool spun by a drill motor you clean out about a 1 1/2" dia. area between the skin. you then inject thickened epoxy. all is needed is to paint over the filled holes and its done. you are creating a grid of filled holes and it works very good on small decks. the thicken epoxy can be made with glass micro spheres and the weight is less then balsa
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