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  #31  
Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

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Originally Posted by BillOcala View Post
I am really glad I posted here - you guys have already saved me from a lot of mistakes. I am sure I will find new ways to go wrong - I am real good about that! Yeah it is an unusual boat, I had never seen one before - the big cockpit and the boat being "beach-able" is really great for what I have in mind.
Large cockpit & fully retracting keel is boffo for daysailing; we can fit 5-6 people on our SJ21, with its 9' benches. That's a good-looking boat to my eye. As for cost ... it's all about your time. The entire deck on our San Juan was less than $250 in epoxy, fabric, and core material. And that was using CoreCell, which is quite a bit pricier than balsa. Any boat of that age under $3500, you are probably gonna have similar issues. If the sails are decent and your time is cheap, gutting the deck is a good getting-to-know-you play date. A bonding exercise. Get epoxy in your hair, literally a bonding exercise. Good luck & keep us appraised!
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  #32  
Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

I am looking at this a a great learning opportunity. I have not done a damn thing really and I have already learned a heck of a lot I didn't know before.

I was out at the boat a few hours this evening really think I can do this. I walked around and beat the hull and I think have a 5' x 6' and a 3' x 4' area to do.

I want to thank you all for the answers to my initial questions. We will see what happens - I will keep track of this project somewhere in case someone is interested in how this goes.
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  #33  
Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

1975 Erika 24 Daysailer by Anacapri - A Restoration

I have never done a blog before - not much there yet but I hope to chronicle my project progress there.
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  #34  
Old 03-26-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

In looking at the picture in your blog its a real small deck that looks in GOOD SHAPE and has some fairly complex curves

I would NOT be cutting it apart from above
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  #35  
Old 03-26-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

This is what I have - a cored deck only and then the turn of the roof is 1/4" fiberglass. I have also since discovered that the seam between the two halves of the boat is was completely fiberglassed together and has no screws at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
Have you pulled a portlight to see if the core runs down the coachroof sides? Often on these smaller boats, only the deck itself was cored, out to maybe 1" from the turn of the roof. That hull-to-deck joint looks in the photo like yer basic shoebox overlap, covered with a rubrail. Often the joint was just riveted or screwed together -- no putty, no glue, no nuffin. It is not unheard of for people to remove the entire deck for recoring, flipping it over in the yard.
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  #36  
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

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Originally Posted by BillOcala View Post
This is what I have - a cored deck only and then the turn of the roof is 1/4" fiberglass. I have also since discovered that the seam between the two halves of the boat is was completely fiberglassed together and has no screws at all.
Pretty typical construction for the era & good news on both fronts. You'll need to make the inner/outer skin determination for yourself, but either choice is fine. Each has advantages & disadvantages. Weather windows have some influence, too.

I really like Gougeon Bros.' West Systems epoxy and use it for critical applications, because I explicitly trust their standards of manufacture. But for bulk work like this, you can save 50% by purchasing discount epoxy (I wouldn't even consider polyester resin for this job.) There are a number of formulators out there -- and that's all they are, because everyone buys their resins and hardeners from the same two sources. They dilute the hardeners and sometimes add solvents to adjust cure rate, flow out, and mix ratios.

HOWEVER: Some of these discounters supply (or sell) pumps for their epoxies that are not metered. That is, they don't dispense the correct amounts of resin & hardener on a one-pump to one-pump basis. Even if they are different colors, or have different numbers on them, the pumps are identical. YOU have to count the right number of strokes, like "Three resin, one hardener." If you are used to metered pumps from top-end vendors like West or MAS, there is room for heartbreak here.

Do not ask how I know this.
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Last edited by bobmcgov; 03-26-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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  #37  
Old 03-26-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

The outer skin is pretty crappy cosmetically. The previous owner did a lot of strange things to it. He had even mounted wood lattice work above the deck so he can walk on it. So thru the top I'm going to do. The inside cabin is too pretty to tear up.
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  #38  
Old 03-26-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

bill,
I suspect your new best friends will be a couple of high quality sanders, one belt and one circular, with a good shopvac attachment, some tyvek suits and face masks. (With goggles.)

And there's all sorts of antiskid materials that look like cork, or rubber, or teak, that are glued on in sheets to hide what's left.
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Old 03-26-2013
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
I really like Gougeon Bros.' West Systems epoxy and use it for critical applications, because I explicitly trust their standards of manufacture. But for bulk work like this, you can save 50% by purchasing discount epoxy (I wouldn't even consider polyester resin for this job.) There are a number of formulators out there -- and that's all they are, because everyone buys their resins and hardeners from the same two sources. They dilute the hardeners and sometimes add solvents to adjust cure rate, flow out, and mix ratios.

HOWEVER: Some of these discounters supply (or sell) pumps for their epoxies that are not metered. That is, they don't dispense the correct amounts of resin & hardener on a one-pump to one-pump basis. Even if they are different colors, or have different numbers on them, the pumps are identical. YOU have to count the right number of strokes, like "One resin, three hardener." If you are used to metered pumps from top-end vendors like West or MAS, there is room for heartbreak here.

Do not ask how I know this.
I totally agree with the bulk epoxy & thickeners. I have a huge amount of respect for the Gougeons and what they have contributed to boatbuilding (I have a first edition of their book ) but I feel their products, especially the additives, are grossly overpriced. All that marketing is expensive. Their stuff and prices may be O/K for small jobs and hobby stuff but when you get to an industrial strength job like a deck recore the difference in prices can really add up. When I did my deck it cost me about a boat buck - it would have been way more than two if I had used all WEST products.

For a job like you are contemplating, I'd forget about pumps altogether and go with graduated containers for mixing - you'll get RSI pumping that many little squirts.
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  #40  
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Re: Recore Entire Deck

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
I totally agree with the bulk epoxy & thickeners. I have a huge amount of respect for the Gougeons and what they have contributed to boatbuilding (I have a first edition of their book ) but I feel their products, especially the additives, are grossly overpriced. All that marketing is expensive. Their stuff and prices may be O/K for small jobs and hobby stuff but when you get to an industrial strength job like a deck recore the difference in prices can really add up. When I did my deck it cost me about a boat buck - it would have been way more than two if I had used all WEST products.

For a job like you are contemplating, I'd forget about pumps altogether and go with graduated containers for mixing - you'll get RSI pumping that many little squirts.
The other sellers are kinda freeloading off WEST's huge, decades-long R&D project. The Gougens test to destruction all kinds of bonds and coatings, just to see how their products perform. They put ungodly dollars into formulating high flexural-modulus epoxies like G*Flex and the spiral nozzle caulk tubes that mix on the fly. They standardized the use of so many additives, curing schedules, and resin/fabric design work, all with an eye toward building and repairing boats, that they could be said to have invented the discipline.

Aeromarine has a basic website and some cheap-ass Chinese pumps.

So I try to honor WEST's public service with a hundred bux here and there; if nothing else, it's nice to have them around to ask questions of, and to have their product line available locally in an emergency. But when I'm buying two or three gallons at a time, I choose one of the discount houses. These guys will be seeing a chunk of my bank account next month. I've read the formulators' markup on epoxy runs 7 to 15X -- which I agree seems awfully high. But then, I ain't in the business & hesitate to tell people how they should price stuff.

Measuring cups are certainly faster than pumping. If you want real accuracy, speed, and the ability to mix exactly as much epoxy as required, portioning by weight is ideal. A digital scale in a big Ziplock is your friend! Weight ratios are not always the same as volume ratios tho, so you will need the exact numbers from your formulator. IIRC, WEST with special coatings hardener is 3.5:1 by volume, 3.7:1 by weight.
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