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-   -   Repair 4 hp two stroke ? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/98148-repair-4-hp-two-stroke.html)

Lou452 04-04-2013 11:38 PM

Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
A gift came to me a two stroke 4 HP Johnson Outboard.
It needs repair. I have somewhat of an issue with the way a two stroke spews oil fumes and is not very kind to the environment.
It seems not to have much of spark for what I can see. I put a test light in line before the coils and it lights up pretty good. I found a plug with three female but only two male pins before the coils and tested at that location. Female side marked A,B,C, all light up. It makes sense that only two male pins are used because this engine has just two plugs and two coils. The plugs seem to have weak yellow fire jumping the gap not a bright blue. Some times I do not see a spark.
Would both coils or both plugs fail at the same time ?
Coils seem to cost $20 - $35 for a 2 Stroke
It would be a used engine after spending say $70
A new 4 Stroke outboard Cost $1300
Try to repair or buy new ?
Kind regards, Lou

kd3pc 04-05-2013 08:16 AM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
Lou

I don't understand the quandry....repair for $70 and use it, or spend 1300 on a new one with no idle adjustment, prone to ethanol issues, no factory support, etc, etc. For me, I would repair the old one, bank the savings or pay down my mortgage.

Just read here on issues folks are having with brand new out of the box engines.

You are in the wrong hobby/lifestyle if you have issues with exhaust. Sailing for the most part requires some sort of ICE to get you to and from the sailing, and to help you out of danger when the wind dies completely, unless your boat is small enough and close enough to the water to row.

The decision is yours but $1200 saved by using the old engine could be donated to the carbon cause of your choice, put in the bank or buy food for those less fortunate than you.

No brainer in my book, but YMMV

best of luck

chucklesR 04-05-2013 08:19 AM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
Concur - sure a 2 stroke is not as clean, and some folks are willing to pay for salve to their conscience.

On the other hand a 2 stroke will last forever, burn the ethanol and the water and is lighter, faster to torque up - and most important - start reliably.

night0wl 04-05-2013 09:54 AM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
I love my little Mercury/Tohatsu 5 hp two stroke. So light my wife can handle it (well, with a little help), and so easy to work on that I've torn down the whole carb in the cockpit in a rocking anchorage.


That being said, I absolutely *HATE* having to mix fuel/oil every time i fill up. Makes me...and it is a bit noisy.

AdamLein 04-05-2013 12:06 PM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
My two-stroke Evinrude 9.9, aka "the lawnmower", is the same age as my regular crew, who incidentally has loaned me his basement for repairs a couple of years ago. We keep it going, it gets us in and out of the marina, and if the wind is light we just sail slower. C27s mount their motors in a hole in the transom, and four-strokes just don't fit in it.

dabnis 04-05-2013 12:53 PM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
You didn't say what year? I think they went to electronic ignition about the early 70's. If yours is electronic you should see a bright blue/white spark at the plug. Maybe try a new plug? If not, the exciter or trigger coil may be bad. A shop may be able to test it and the ignition coils. I have had many 2 stroke outboards and motorcycles. Properly maintained, new plugs once in a while, the are bullet proof and will last basically forever. The smoke is less annoying than someone smoking cigarettes, to me anyway.

Paul T

Lou452 04-07-2013 03:58 PM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabnis (Post 1012631)
You didn't say what year? I think they went to electronic ignition about the early 70's. If yours is electronic you should see a bright blue/white spark at the plug. Maybe try a new plug? If not, the exciter or trigger coil may be bad. A shop may be able to test it and the ignition coils. I have had many 2 stroke outboards and motorcycles. Properly maintained, new plugs once in a while, the are bullet proof and will last basically forever. The smoke is less annoying than someone smoking cigarettes, to me anyway.

Paul T

Year is a big ?? It is a model # 4R77B and the serial # is E4626661 I think it is made in the USA. Johnson sea horse 4 HP. It is always in gear no N or reverse and it is a short shaft. The plugs on it's sticker call for a Champion L77J4 The plugs in it are NGK The coil packs Have a orange wire coming to them and a plug wire coming out. The plug wire seems like it is made in the coil. I am not sure how to test the plug wire to see if it is not working ?
Would both coils go bad at the same time ?
I have found a lot of coils on the web pages. I need to find the right ones or give in and try find a repair shop.
Any reply helps I think I can fix it. Wires and lights are not my strong suit but I am persistent. I can start changing parts and plugs and wires a few good folks posting will help me to change the right ones first.
The pull starter was a mess and that was and easy fix. Just need some spark Thanks, Lou

jgeissinger 04-07-2013 04:10 PM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
It is a regular shaft 1977. It is hard to diagnose electrics from a distance, but for starters, no the coils don't both go bad at once. I have several Johnson 2 strokes and did have one of your same model for a few years. If I come up with some sort of brilliant idea for yours, I will get back to you. I will consult with my outboard expert (my son).

Lou452 04-07-2013 06:39 PM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jgeissinger (Post 1013356)
It is a regular shaft 1977. It is hard to diagnose electrics from a distance, but for starters, no the coils don't both go bad at once. I have several Johnson 2 strokes and did have one of your same model for a few years. If I come up with some sort of brilliant idea for yours, I will get back to you. I will consult with my outboard expert (my son).

I can take some pictures with my phone. I am not very good get a picture from the phone to post here on sailnet . The coils have an orange wires coming into them going back up the orange wires they go to a plug with two male ends that comes from three female plugs marked a,b,c the two orange wires can only plug in the correct way. All female ends on this plug light up the test light. From that point ( the three female upstream two male pins down stream plug ) the next down stream place to test seems to be the spark plugs. I do not see a way to disconnect the orange wires when the enter the coil or a way to disconnect the plug wires at the coil. Thanks, Lou

dabnis 04-07-2013 06:48 PM

Re: Repair 4 hp two stroke ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou452 (Post 1013355)
Year is a big ?? It is a model # 4R77B and the serial # is E4626661 I think it is made in the USA. Johnson sea horse 4 HP. It is always in gear no N or reverse and it is a short shaft. The plugs on it's sticker call for a Champion L77J4 The plugs in it are NGK The coil packs Have a orange wire coming to them and a plug wire coming out. The plug wire seems like it is made in the coil. I am not sure how to test the plug wire to see if it is not working ?
Would both coils go bad at the same time ?
I have found a lot of coils on the web pages. I need to find the right ones or give in and try find a repair shop.
Any reply helps I think I can fix it. Wires and lights are not my strong suit but I am persistent. I can start changing parts and plugs and wires a few good folks posting will help me to change the right ones first.
The pull starter was a mess and that was and easy fix. Just need some spark Thanks, Lou

If it is a 1977 model I am sure it has electronic ignition, As said, doubtfully that both ignition coils would go bad at once unless it has been submerged.

It probably has a kill switch or button on it. They either contact to ground or act as an open/closed switch. You might try tracing both wired and if possible, disconnect one end. If it is a "grounded" system that will isolate the possibly bad switch. If it is an "open/closed system you could skin back a little bit of insulation and connect a jumper wire to each wire, completing the circuit ahead of the switch.

You might try new plugs as two strokes live and die on plugs.

The exicter coil, which replaced points in older motors, may be inside the flywheel, which, unless you have a puller, you probably can't get off.

Before doing anything, suggest you do a thorough inspection of all the wiring for chafing or corrosion of the contacts.

Some links: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp...w=1088&bih=521

Or, you could just take it to a shop. If it has decent compression they can probably get it going with an hour or two of labor.

Paul T


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