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post #11 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

Given that butane and propane are both heavier than air, don't they share essentially the same concerns? Perhaps buatne may be seen as a little better, in that the containers are much smaller so any leak is likely to be localized and a small volume (as opposed to the much larger propane tanks).

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post #12 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
...
The invisible flame from alcohol seems to set more boats on fire (and boaters) than anything else in a galley. ...
That may have been arguably true for pressurized alcohol stoves, non-pressurized alcohol stoves are just about the safest way to cook on a boat.

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...And takes forever to cook, too...
Nope. About the only thing non-pressurized alcohol stove do significantly slower is boiling large quantities of water. Even then, keeping the pot cover while heating will probably make more difference than the fuel of the stove.

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...Take a look at the stove, and the seal, and for $25, hey, if you change your mind and take it home...worse things happen.
Like blowing up you boat? (as a non-random example)

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post #13 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

An unpressurized alcohol stove is about as powerful as a can of sterno. OK, a little more, still not the same as cooking with gas, and the fuel itself still finds ways to leak from the bottle, can, filling, whatever. I'd rather eat cold.

But than again, I also have been in many homes with that nasty explosive propane and LPG and somehow, despite the proven fact that some fo them explode every year? It doesn't scare me away. Or make me cook with that nice safe sterno can of yours at home.

Horses for courses. I'll bet you engage in risky activity every day. Walk on steps. Drive or ride in vehicles. Sleep surrounded by electrical wiring, including kitchen and laundry appliances, which are the number one cause of home fires?

Butane on a boat? Kills fewer people every year than swimming pools, lightning strikes, bicycle accidents...you know, a long list. There's nothing special about a big pot of water, except, it absorbs a lot of calories, that alky stoves just don't put out.
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post #14 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
An unpressurized alcohol stove is about as powerful as a can of sterno. OK, a little more, still not the same as cooking with gas, ...
Mine cooks fine. Everyone I know who has one thinks they cook fine. The BTU rating on modern non-pressurized stoves is within a few percent of that of marine propane stoves.

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...and the fuel itself still finds ways to leak from the bottle, can, filling, whatever. I'd rather eat cold.
In the stove, the fuel is absorbed in a matting. It can't leak. If you cut the canister in half you might get a few drops. Even if you do spill a little while fueling the stove, it doesn't result in explosive vapors in the bilge.

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But than again, I also have been in many homes with that nasty explosive propane and LPG and somehow, despite the proven fact that some fo them explode every year? It doesn't scare me away. Or make me cook with that nice safe sterno can of yours at home.
Actually, houses with basements and propane stoves, water heaters, et cetera, DO explode from time to time. That's one reason residential propane tanks are supposed to be located away from the house. Without a sunken basement any stray propane just runs down hill and away from the house, until it dissipates. I use propane in my BBQ at home, and don't worry too much about it, BECAUSE THE FUMES CAN'T BUILD UP ANYWHERE, unlike the situation on a boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Horses for courses. I'll bet you engage in risky activity every day. Walk on steps. Drive or ride in vehicles. Sleep surrounded by electrical wiring, including kitchen and laundry appliances, which are the number one cause of home fires?

Butane on a boat? Kills fewer people every year than swimming pools, lightning strikes, bicycle accidents...you know, a long list. There's nothing special about a big pot of water, except, it absorbs a lot of calories, that alky stoves just don't put out.
I just pointed out that non-pressized alcohol stoves are safer than butane. If you want to take the risk, fine by me. But, how about NOT spreading myths and lies while you object?

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Last edited by SlowButSteady; 05-06-2013 at 12:12 PM.
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post #15 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

"Mine cooks fine. Everyone I know who has one thinks they cook fine."
That's circular logic: The folks who don't think they cook fine, have gotten rid of them. So of course the folks who DO have them, think they are fine.

"The BTU rating on modern non-pressurized stoves is within a few percent of that of marine propane stoves. "
Do tell? My comments are based on my experience and perhaps the stoves have changed with the times. Where can one find BTU figures on alky stoves?


"Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
...and the fuel itself still finds ways to leak from the bottle, can, filling, whatever. I'd rather eat cold.

In the stove, the fuel is absorbed in a matting. It can't leak."
Read what you're quoting again. I didn't say it could leak from the stove, I said the fuel itself can still leak from the BOTTLE and other sources.


"Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
But than again, I also have been in many homes with that nasty explosive propane and LPG ..."
"Actually, houses with basements and propane stoves, water heaters, et cetera, DO explode from time to time."
Again, read what you're quoting. I already said that homes DO explode from time to time. And every year, about two gasoline stations also blow up in the US, from folks who couldn't wait to light a ciggy.

"I just pointed out that non-pressized alcohol stoves are safer than butane."
That's arguable, I doubt anyone is actually keeping numbers or recording incidents on either.

"But, how about NOT spreading myths and lies while you object? "
As I said, my comments are based on past experience. And I'd love to see who provides what numbers for BTUs these days. Feel free to convince me that things have changed but last time I looked? Sterno was for the buffet table.

From Origo, a traditional alky stove maker:
"The Origo 4100 cooks with pressure-free alcohol fuel. It boasts two efficient burners...
• 6800 BTU's"

Cheapie Korean BBQ stoves claim 8000 BTUs, which is over 17% higher. 10-11,000 is not uncommon in better burners. And there's one on Amazon that will cost almost 4x more than $25 but says "Iwatani 15,000BTU Portable Butane Stove with Case" which is, according to my math? more heat than both burners on the Origo stove combined. About 20% of the Origo price, too.

Which part of that is myth, lies, or simply incorrect?

Last edited by hellosailor; 05-06-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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post #16 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

A proper marine propane stove has a number of safeguards including (and to my mind most significantly) a thermocouple at the burner. On those stoves if the flame is blown out, say by the ventilation you are providing through the cabin, the fuel will cut off automatically.

We all choose the level of risk that we are willing to accept. For me, I wouldn't consider any sort of propane or butane stove unless it had a thermocouple at the burner.

I choose an Origo Catalyzed Alcohol 2 burner Stove and I happen to love it. It's safe and well made. I don't find it slow to heat at all. But if it *is* slower, so what? If I was in a hurry I wouldn't be on a sailboat :-)

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post #17 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

Suit yourself. I like to relax on my boat. Having a non-pressurized alcohol stove just make for one less thing to worry about.

Never forget them. Do something to prevent it from happening again.
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

Remember, around 450BC Aeschylus was killed when an eagle dropped a tortoise on his shiny bald head. Wear a hard hat if there are birds around. So many things to worry about.

Now, the guy who was injured last year in Maine, when a butane stove or bottle blew up on a fishing boat, is apparently still considered "cause unknown". Kamikazi lobsters have not been eliminated, but I can tell you that trying to put a 16-quart lobster pot on the boil with only 6800 BTUs is going to give them way too big a chance to sabotage your stove.
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post #19 of 27 Old 05-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

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The cans are sealed metal that is only pierced by the stove when you insert them, so in theory they are quite leak resistant until used.
Hmm. That's a good point. Maybe propane would be better. Then I could detach and store the bottles in a nifty PVC pipe on the aft rail.

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post #20 of 27 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Butane camp stove in cabin

Propane is a mixed blessing. The small bottles use a simple rubber ball held against the hole by the gas pressure to seal them, and those rubber balls sometimes leak. So yes, they are removeable, but arguably more likely to be leaking.

Almost makes hexamine tablets start to look good. Or at least, safer, huh? (G)
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