Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston... - Page 19 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree146Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #181  
Old 06-17-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,917
Thanks: 67
Thanked 67 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Wouldn't scuttling a plastic boat bring down environmental law upon the scuttler? The disposal of plastic is illegal on all waters, not to mention the release of fuel and other prohibited substances.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #182  
Old 06-17-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,152
Thanks: 34
Thanked 70 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

O.K.

"...provided the vessel is in water with a depth of at least 50' ."

At the rate we are going, we will be seeing some EPIRB activations in the Bay when the chop gets above 3 feet.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 06-17-2013 at 11:38 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #183  
Old 06-17-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,152
Thanks: 34
Thanked 70 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Wouldn't scuttling a plastic boat bring down environmental law upon the scuttler? The disposal of plastic is illegal on all waters, not to mention the release of fuel and other prohibited substances.
On a serious note, these unmanned, unlighted, abandoned sailboats are, in fact, a hazard to navigation to all of us, particularly those of us in other small sailboats.

How would you like to run into that Swan 48 at hull speed during a period of poor visibility?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #184  
Old 06-17-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,015
Thanks: 0
Thanked 141 Times in 125 Posts
Rep Power: 5
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
On a serious note, these unmanned, unlighted, abandoned sailboats are, in fact, a hazard to navigation to all of us, particularly those of us in other small sailboats.

How would you like to run into that Swan 48 at hull speed during a period of poor visibility?
Well, chances are I'd run into it while down below grabbing a quick nap while singlehanding, so I'd have little cause to gripe about it, actually... (grin)

However, if you're gonna hit an abandoned derelict, may as well make it a beauty like WOLFHOUND, no? Having a shot at salvaging something like that might not be all that bad a deal... With my luck, however, I'd run into that Island Packet off Charleston, instead....

It will be interesting to see what happens with that one... The guy claimed they were "tracking" it, and it would be salvaged... One would have thought they would have done so by now, no? Once the Gulf Stream gets hold of that puppy, it's probably time to wave bye-bye...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #185  
Old 06-17-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,546
Thanks: 98
Thanked 98 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
We could eliminate 90% of these unnecessary distress calls with the implementation and public knowledge of 2 regulations:

1. The vessel must be scuttled as it poses a risk to maritime navigation, either by the owner/operator or by the USCG at the owner's/operator's expense.

2. The owner and operator of the vessel are jointly liable for all the actual costs of rescue, to be reimbursed within, say, 90 days of rescue, if the USCG determines either that immediate assistance was not required, or if the rescue could have reasonably been avoided with prudent trip planning and seamanship.

So, sure, you can call the Coast Guard, but you will lose your vessel in every event and, in the event you are at fault for the distress situation or unnecessary rescue, you will pay for the rescue.
Talk about opening the door to litigation.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #186  
Old 06-17-2013
wolfenzee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: S/V Waltzing Matilda, Port Ludlow, WA (NW Puget Sound)
Posts: 497
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
wolfenzee is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to wolfenzee
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Several things I have been able to glean from this thread
Peoples over reliance on push button navigation has removed training in good old fashion seamanship. Electronics fail even under ideal conditions...but when the **** hits the fan it is even more likely to fail, if any part of the electrical system goes down you techno gizmos go down.
As the USCG has been adsorbed into "Fatherland Security" they are putting more emphasis in their training towards protecting our borders and less towards what they were set up to do.
No matter how well you are trained things can still get nasty, sailors need to not only know how to handle this, but having a boat prepared to go offshore is significantly different than a boat set up for weekend coast sailing.
An important part of preparing a boat for offshore is preparing yourself. I was told that in getting my boat ready I should take her offshore in something nasty and "beat the snot out of her", this would not only help me to ready the boat but help to ready me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #187  
Old 06-17-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,546
Thanks: 98
Thanked 98 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
Several things I have been able to glean from this thread
Peoples over reliance on push button navigation has removed training in good old fashion seamanship. Electronics fail even under ideal conditions...but when the **** hits the fan it is even more likely to fail, if any part of the electrical system goes down you techno gizmos go down.
As the USCG has been adsorbed into "Fatherland Security" they are putting more emphasis in their training towards protecting our borders and less towards what they were set up to do.
No matter how well you are trained things can still get nasty, sailors need to not only know how to handle this, but having a boat prepared to go offshore is significantly different than a boat set up for weekend coast sailing.
An important part of preparing a boat for offshore is preparing yourself. I was told that in getting my boat ready I should take her offshore in something nasty and "beat the snot out of her", this would not only help me to ready the boat but help to ready me.
+Freakin'1
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #188  
Old 06-17-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,152
Thanks: 34
Thanked 70 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
It will be interesting to see what happens with that one... The guy claimed they were "tracking" it, and it would be salvaged... One would have thought they would have done so by now, no? Once the Gulf Stream gets hold of that puppy, it's probably time to wave bye-bye...
Maybe he wants to assert continued ownership and deny that he ever abandoned it. My brief review reveals that the law of salvage is not entirely settled, particularly if there is some question about whether the vessel is derelict, although the American Rule favors the finder over the owner. Some authorities believe the salvor merely acquires a possessory salvage lien, which must be enforced in the federal court system.

So after all the risks of securing and towing an apparently abandoned vessel home, you might end up with an admiralty suit or a federal case. (Remember the towing collision in the Drake/Paragon case? If you can't sail or motor the Swan 48 home on its own, it can certainly destroy your vessel in bad weather while you tow it.) What is one salvages a vessel at great risk, only to discover the boat is now worth less than the purchase money financing lien? I assume you take title subject to the lien of any secured creditor.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 06-17-2013 at 03:51 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #189  
Old 06-17-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,917
Thanks: 67
Thanked 67 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Maybe he wants to assert continued ownership and deny that he ever abandoned it. My brief review reveals that the law of salvage is not entirely settled, particularly if there is some question about whether the vessel is derelict, although the American Rule favors the finder over the owner. Some authorities believe the salvor merely acquires a possessory salvage lien, which must be enforced in the federal court system.

So after all the risks of securing and towing an apparently abandoned vessel home, you might end up with an admiralty suit or a federal case. (Remember the towing collision in the Drake/Paragon case? If you can't sail or motor the Swan 48 home on its own, it can certainly destroy your vessel in bad weather while you tow it.) What is one salvages a vessel at great risk, only to discover the boat is now worth less than the purchase money financing lien? I assume you take title subject to the lien of any secured creditor.
It would almost certainly be a standard case of, "He with the most expensive lawyers with the best connections wins." In other words: American justice.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #190  
Old 06-17-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,050
Thanks: 30
Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Wow, that's certainly a more 'charitable' view than mine... (grin)

Just curious... Say you had a family member who was a CG Rescue Swimmer... Would you be just as happy to see him called to jump out of a helo into 20' seas in the middle of a winter's night, a hundred miles or more east of Hatteras, to rescue a recreational boater in dire straits due to recklessness, imprudence, or sheer stupidity - as to save the crew of a commercial fishing or merchant vessel, who perhaps had more 'business' being out there, were doing everything in a competent and professional manner, and who simply had an unanticipated failure/run of bad luck? You'd make no distinction whatsoever between 2 such comparable incidents, in respect to your willingness to see CG rescue assets being compelled to expose themselves to such risks in either case? Seriously?

:
The answer is I would be proud if my family member decided his profession was to save someone's life,,,,, period.

The are far greater egregious situations where our military is put at risk for far less a calling than saving lives say in Afghanistan ( I am sure you protest that too right)

But its ok for the CG to be put at risk on the Bering Sea rescuing crabbers putting pots out next to ice floes in 60 foot seas and 70 mph winds. Why...because they are professionals.

Or maybe someday if/ when you get in trouble Jon and call them because of an unforeseen emergency or a failure on one of the boats and they decide to take stock of you whether to come get you or not. I mean really delivering boats, Is that a reason for them to come get you either?

To me yes it is, but I don't discriminate because someone has called for help.

Listen I don't like any of the military to be put in harms way but they are. I think its a better use of the military ( the CG is part) to have them rescue ANY sailor in distress from ANY country for ANY reason than to have them put at risk in Afghanistan exposed to haters.

The CG is a voluntary organization last time I checked so the swimmer volunteer to do that duty, they aren't conscripted.

And yes I think they should rescue anybody when in their ( CG) assessment they determine they need to be rescued. Who are you to determine that? They are the professionals. I have no problem, with them doing their jobs.

In addition it is proven by the facts presented which you fail to recognize due to stubbornness and some kind of professional " feeling " you have that the amount of rescues of people...not just sorties is down. If the facts stated the opposite youd be ramming them down our throats instead.

Just like the axiom says...You can lead a horse to water...but you cant make it drink. For the life of me I cant understand why even the facts seem to escape you here.

The CG is there to save lives period. If you feel you are in peril call them. The CG who will also be there with you can assess and help in the determination. Call the professionals if you need them.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coast Guard rescues four men on sailboat pummeled by Andrea off Charleston - Charlest NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-08-2013 08:50 AM
VIDEO: Coast Guard Academy Welcomes "Blue Goose" and "Stormy Petrel" - Patch.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-28-2012 08:50 AM
Coast Guard rescues two sailors from rough seas on 20th anniversary of ... - Boston.c NewsReader News Feeds 1 10-30-2011 05:48 PM
"Blue Water Boats?" "Rescues" snider General Discussion (sailing related) 37 07-01-2007 11:21 PM
Coast Guard rescues sailors in high winds - KHOU (subscription) NewsReader News Feeds 0 11-30-2006 11:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:09 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.