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  #11  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

I wonder when the left the BVI...

Andrea kind of developed quickly, and they may not have know that it was a danger before they departed. It's still really early in the hurricane season, and it's not very common to have significant storms in early June.

I'm with DR on this one, the reporter may not have any boating experience and could have been piecing together a narrative from random crew comments.

That said, crew pre-departure prep work may not have been the best. I'd be interested to find out a little more about the experience/quals of the skipper and crew, and the initial condition of the vessel.
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  #12  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

ever been in a 35' boat with no power and no sails in 20' swells at night? these conditions don't really give you a good feeling that it is going to stay floating. Getting rescued was not the problem, going in front of a storm was. sounds like getting rescued is the only thing they did right.
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  #13  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
It's really puzzling how people get themselves into this kind of trouble. Maybe "delivery captains" need a checklist with no-brainer things like flashlights included. There are sure to be deficiencies in boats to be delivered but one would think anyone taking the responsibility to move a boat would have some minimum requirements. One obvious minimum would be some way to check weather predictions to be able to make the complicated decision to say, "Gee, there's a tropical storm coming...Maybe we shouldn't be out here"...duh They threw the freaking anchor in??? It doesn't sound like it was a sea anchor. Let's see--a couple hundred pounds of chain and anchor, dead weight being jerked up and down..lucky they didn't rip the bow off and rig along with it.
I've a friend the delivers boats from time to time. He pretty much decided he's done and I'll quote his words to me about a week ago. "I'm gonna die out there! The condition of the boats that owners want transported, the demands that they get moved when "they" want them moved. The breakdowns all are taking toll in him. And, he only does river, bay and coastal NJ, with occasional NY VA deliveries. So.. I don't know about this incident, but maybe other delivery captains can chime in with their experiences.
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  #14  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by overbored View Post
ever been in a 35' boat with no power and no sails in 20' swells at night? these conditions don't really give you a good feeling that it is going to stay floating. Getting rescued was not the problem, going in front of a storm was. sounds like getting rescued is the only thing they did right.
Point. I'm curious about whether they had a foresail as someone above said, though. I'm speaking from no hand-on experience at all, merely book knowledge.........but IIRC you could use that to maintain steerage, correct??

(I may very well be speaking out of my nether regions. I'm not a sailor, but I play one in my tub)
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  #15  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

There are his side, her side and the truth. Unlike Bounty, the captain is alive.

But what the hell, let the feeding frenzy begin.
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  #16  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by Staredge View Post
If the boat is still afloat, did you really need to be rescued???
I think the OP was making the point that people are tending to call for help too soon. This boat was apparently in no danger of sinking but then they had no way of knowing what the storm was doing without electronics. It's pretty scary at night with 20' seas and no idea whether things are going to get worse BUT does that warrant bailing out? I personally do not think so. There are lots of ways of stabilizing a situation: trailing warps, heaving-to, drogues, etc. These are well documented, much used, and effective. Taking any boat into the ocean offshore under any condition requires a bare minimum of stuff to save your a$$ if things don't go right. Anyone purporting to be a professional has the responsibility of being so prepared. It does not seem like they were adequately prepared. On my own boat I have all that equipment and would not take the boat out of sight of land without it. I would certainly not consider risking my life by taking a strange boat with inadequate equipment offshore just to do a delivery for someone. An attitude of nonchalance toward the ocean seems to be a big contributing factor in these incidents.

So what should be the point at which one gets on the horn or inflates the liferaft or activates the EPIRB? It would be interesting to hear what folks think a minimum list of equipment should be before considering venturing into the ocean 50 miles.
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Last edited by smurphny; 06-08-2013 at 03:12 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
I think the OP was making the point that people are tending to call for help too soon.
Yes, with the ease of calling for a rescure via EPIRBs, Satphones and PLBs, it now seems some sailors call the Coast Guard when conditions become uncomfortable and/or scary. When I registered my PLB with SARSAT, that was not the standard for activiation that I recall. If I understand correctly, an abandoned vessel at sea is free to the first individual who salvages it, or at least that individual can claim a hefty salvage fee for the vessel.

What about the consequences of abandoning ship unnecessarily?

1. You risk the lives of everyone on board when you transfer to the helicopter or other ship;

2. You risk the lives of your rescuers, including the Coast Guard;

3. It diverts the Coast Guard from rescuing people who really need to be rescued, i.e., vessel is sinking and/or someone is seriously injured and needs immediate medical attention;

4. You cause the economic waste of losing someone's valuable recreational sailboat and all the costs attendent to your rescue; and

5. Unless you scuttle the vessel, it remains a hazard to navigation, probably an even greater hazard.

Everyone who contemplates an ocean passage should read K. Adlard Coles' "Heavy Weather Sailing." Many have survived far worse than 50 knots and 20 foot waves - there are racers who continue racing in those conditions. In a storm, you should expect to lose your electrical power, your engine and to have water ingress. If you are not emotionally and psychologically prepared for that, you should not head offshore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
This boat was apparently in no danger of sinking but then they had no way of knowing what the storm was doing without electronics. It's pretty scary at night with 20' seas and no idea whether things are going to get worse BUT does that warrant bailing out? I personally do not think so. There are lots of ways of stabilizing a situation: trailing warps, heaving-to, drogues, etc. These are well documented, much used, and effective.
Judging by the regular posts on Sailnet, it seems a majority of the sailors today might have skipped the basics, the foundation of sailing, and jumped to the electronic gizmos phase. Without their electricity and engine, they are helpless. They literally cannot sail without the modern conveniences.

With all respect to D. Ferron whose opinion I respect (especially for her work with the Coast Guard Auxiliary), the facile response to every incident nowadays, from sailing to politics, is "well, lets wait for the investigation." That is pure corporate b.s. No, an investigation is not necessary to form a preliminary opinion about any particular event. There are enough facts here to reveal the problem. So what if the newspaper did not understand what a sea anchor is?

Did the investigation change any one's opinion about the Bounty incident? No, it only reinforce the validity of those of us who correctly concluded the captain was reckless. When are we going to hear the results of the investigation of the other delivery captain who lost the Island Packet off Cape Hatteras earlier in the year? Do we still need more facts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Taking any boat into the ocean offshore under any condition requires a bare minimum of stuff to save your a$$ if things don't go right. Anyone purporting to be a professional has the responsibility of being so prepared. It does not seem like they were adequately prepared. On my own boat I have all that equipment and would not take the boat out of sight of land without it. I would certainly not consider risking my life by taking a strange boat with inadequate equipment offshore just to do a delivery for someone. An attitude of nonchalance toward the ocean seems to be a big contributing factor in these incidents..
The ease of calling for help has encouraged this nonchalance and now we are seeing the results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
So what should be the point at which one gets on the horn or inflates the liferaft or activates the EPIRB? It would be interesting to hear what folks think a minimum list of equipment should be before considering venturing into the ocean 50 miles.
I would certainly include flashlights on that list. Everytime I go to my own boat, even for a day sail, I take a bag with my GPS, my weather radio, my handheld VHF, flashlights, a camera and a video camera, along with all the gear and equipment already on my boat.
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Last edited by jameswilson29; 06-09-2013 at 07:23 AM.
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  #18  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Father said to me when I was 5. Captain of the ship must go down with the ship. Not sure if this applies to the delivery Captain where there is no love between the man and the boat. I am with the old school, I go with my boat or I ride it out in the life raft until the storm is over.

Who knows what happened in this incidence. Incompetent captain, unfound vessel, overbearing owner or demands, unpaid job, un-collaborating crews, sh@t hit the fan, weather or bad luck, anything or combination can happen. I was not in there shoes. I am glad no one dies, and our CG has a chance to practice their skills. I am sure their families glad that they called the CG. Who are we to judge others for their action when their life is at risk.

I doubt Obama will lower my taxes next year if no one calls CG for rescue in 2013. If the money is not used here, it will be wasted somewhere else. What about the life of the rescuer? Don't worry CG has straight protocol and SOP as when, what and where to call quit. Let them make their decision.
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  #19  
Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

I hear you James. I'm not saying to wait for the investigation. But somewhere between that and a short article where the journalist may or may not have gotten the facts correct is a good starting spot for a discussion. I just wanted to head off the knee-jerk bashing of those involved and turn it into a discussion that all of us can learn from. More of "What would I (or what could they) have done differently?" rather than "The idiots should have rigged a sail by sewing their t-shirts together or gone down with the ship."
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Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jephotog View Post
Doesn't the saying go "You should not leave a floating vessel unless it is to step up into the helicopter"?
I think it's " step up into the life raft "
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