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  #61  
Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Thanks for that moderation. I too apologize for any offense taken. None intended.

Dave made a point about singlehanded safety, a much discussed topic. Don't want to derail the conversation but the way I handle long offshore stints is by #1 getting plenty of sleep beforehand so it's not necessary for a LONG time. I find I can stay awake and alert for 30+ hours. #2 After that, I turn on the radar alarm function set out to 15 miles and continually rewind a kitchen timer so that dozing off is possible but only for limited duration. Those short sleeps, ON DECK, are quite effective. Often, nodding off for 20 min. or less will keep me going for a long time, at least until light. I would never do any of the above near regular shipping lanes or near shore. Once out 30 miles or so, quite frankly, I mostly don't see another boat until I get closer to land so the likelihood of crashing into anyone or being run down are very, very remote.
Food for thought about sleep depravation.

You make think you are ok, alert and cognitive, but studies and common sense would show otherwise. 30 hrs. in car car would make you a poor driver. 30 hours in a gentle rolling sea motion make you sleepy let alone if you were outside and there was any deterioration of the weather and you were alone.
Whether you are in a boat 30 miles off shore or not, and the only way of bringing you to you alert state was a radar. Suppose you started your journey and half way through the radar failed at 15 hours.

Single handing like that is a risk, no mater how remote the danger. So why take the risk? What's the point if you don't have to?

The point I am making here is not not to do it, it is that different people have different assessments about what is risky and should not be taken on. People could form the opinion that this is certain more irresponsible ( single handing up the Delaware or Jersey coast with impaired decision making after 16 hours or so), than than not having a flashlight on board. Just saying ( I am not talking about cross ocean passages). Of course it was stupid not to take a flashlight. IMHO opinion its also stupid to singlehand over 16 hours when not necessary.


Quote:
Impairment of ability[edit]

The dangers of sleep deprivation are apparent on the road; the American Academy of Sleep Medicine (AASM) reports that one in every five serious motor vehicle injuries is related to driver fatigue, with 80,000 drivers falling asleep behind the wheel every day and 250,000 accidents every year related to sleep,[27] though the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration suggests the figure for traffic accidents may be closer to 100,000.[28] The AASM recommends pulling off the road and taking a 15- or 20-minute nap to alleviate drowsiness.[27]

According to a 2000 study published in the British Medical Journal, researchers in Australia and New Zealand reported that sleep deprivation can have some of the same hazardous effects as being drunk.[29] People who drove after being awake for 17–19 hours performed worse than those with a blood alcohol level of .05 percent, which is the legal limit for drunk driving in most western European countries and Australia. Another study suggested that performance begins to degrade after 16 hours awake, and 21 hours awake was equivalent to a blood alcohol content of .08 percent, which is the blood alcohol limit for drunk driving in Canada, the U.S., and the U.K.[30]

In addition, as a result of continuous muscular activity without proper rest time, effects such as cramping are much more frequent in sleep-deprived individuals. Extreme cases of sleep deprivation have been reported to be associated with hernias, muscle fascia tears, and other such problems commonly associated with physical overexertion.

A 2006 study has shown that while total sleep deprivation for one night caused many errors, the errors were not significant until after the second night of total sleep deprivation.[31] However, combining alcohol with acute sleep deprivation results in a trebled rate of driving off the road when using a simulator.[32]

The National Sleep Foundation identifies several warning signs that a driver is dangerously fatigued, including rolling down the window, turning up the radio, trouble keeping eyes open, head-nodding, drifting out of the lane, and daydreaming. At particular risk are lone drivers between midnight and 6 am.[33]

Sleep deprivation can negatively impact performance in professional fields as well, potentially jeopardizing lives. Due largely to the February 2009 crash of Colgan Air Flight 3407, which killed 50 people and was partially attributed to pilot fatigue, the FAA reviewed its procedures to ensure that pilots are sufficiently rested.[34] A 2004 study also found medical residents with less than four hours of sleep a night made more than twice as many errors as residents who slept for more than seven hours a night, an especially alarming trend given that less than 11% of surveyed residents were sleeping more than seven hours a night.[35]

Twenty-four hours of continuous sleep deprivation results in the choice of less difficult math tasks without decreases in subjective reports of effort applied to the task. Naturally caused sleep loss affects the choice of everyday tasks such that low effort tasks are mostly commonly selected. Adolescents who experience less sleep show a decreased willingness to engage in sports activities that require effort through fine motor coordination and attention to detail.[36][37]
Great sleep deprivation mimics psychosis: distorted perceptions can lead to inappropriate emotional and behavioral responses.[38]

Astronauts have reported performance errors and decreased cognitive ability during periods of extended working hours and wakefulness as well as due to sleep loss caused by circadian rhythm disruption and environmental factors.- Sleep deprivation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[39]
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  #62  
Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Am thinking it might be possible to rig up something using a good 1/2" rechargeable drill. I wonder if it would turn the engine over fast enough with the compression levers released to then engage the levers.
Can't remember where I read about it, but there was a fellow who rigged his engine to "hand crank" with his boom. He connected the boom to the engine and allowed and gybed, using the force on the boom to start the engine.
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  #63  
Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by johnnyquest37 View Post
Can't remember where I read about it, but there was a fellow who rigged his engine to "hand crank" with his boom. He connected the boom to the engine and allowed and gybed, using the force on the boom to start the engine.
I read this article in 2004 I think. It was during a solo round the world race or some other long distance solo event.

I was on a race crossing the Gulf of Mexico (Regatta al Sol) in 2004. On the second day after running the engines we lost all power after the Captain failed to isolate a battery after running the engine. I had just read the article on how to start the engine with the saile and was ready to give it a try but the owner and the guy who works on his boat was not willing to give it a try, I was pretty disappointed. Fortunately we had a GPS, flashlights and batteries to continue for 3 more days.
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  #64  
Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Food for thought about sleep depravation.

You make think you are ok, alert and cognitive, but studies and common sense would show otherwise. 30 hrs. in car car would make you a poor driver. 30 hours in a gentle rolling sea motion make you sleepy let alone if you were outside and there was any deterioration of the weather and you were alone.
Whether you are in a boat 30 miles off shore or not, and the only way of bringing you to you alert state was a radar. Suppose you started your journey and half way through the radar failed at 15 hours.

Single handing like that is a risk, no mater how remote the danger. So why take the risk? What's the point if you don't have to?

The point I am making here is not not to do it, it is that different people have different assessments about what is risky and should not be taken on. People could form the opinion that this is certain more irresponsible ( single handing up the Delaware or Jersey coast with impaired decision making after 16 hours or so), than than not having a flashlight on board. Just saying ( I am not talking about cross ocean passages). Of course it was stupid not to take a flashlight. IMHO opinion its also stupid to singlehand over 16 hours when not necessary.
It is certainly not a great situation and not one bit of fun to have to single-hand for a long stretch. I'm not recommending it. Given my druthers, I'd prefer another crew member to take turns at the wheel. So far I have yet to persuade friends to subject themselves to these kinds of trips. They seem to be smarter than that
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  #65  
Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jephotog View Post
I read this article in 2004 I think. It was during a solo round the world race or some other long distance solo event.

I was on a race crossing the Gulf of Mexico (Regatta al Sol) in 2004. On the second day after running the engines we lost all power after the Captain failed to isolate a battery after running the engine. I had just read the article on how to start the engine with the saile and was ready to give it a try but the owner and the guy who works on his boat was not willing to give it a try, I was pretty disappointed. Fortunately we had a GPS, flashlights and batteries to continue for 3 more days.
Last year I installed a battery isolation system just to avoid this type of problem. Now I don't need to worry about whether the house or start batteries are being discharged. The start battery is always isolated automatically. It is conceivable though that some damage could occur to the battery area: fire, mechanical damage, etc. that would trash all the batteries. Without a backup, you'd be in trouble. I think a small, charged battery, stashed in a safe place, together with a spare starter is probably minimizing the risk of getting into this kind of fix. I have 200w. of solar panel power as well which works quite well when there is light.

The idea of attaching the engine to the boom seems crazily risky. When the line around the engine pulley keeps winding once the engine starts...oops. I guess if there were no other option...but wow.
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  #66  
Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Probably, but I keep the drill onboard. Just wonder if I can make up some sort of one-way engagement so it disengages as soon as the engine kicks over. Maybe using the alternator belt; a belt sheave right on the drill? Going to have to experiment.

Try driving the motor with a socket on the nut for the crankshaft if it is accessible.
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  #67  
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
The idea of attaching the engine to the boom seems crazily risky. When the line around the engine pulley keeps winding once the engine starts..
Now you sound just like the owner of the boat who would not let me try it. I was ready to go for it, but they would not tell me where the engine was.


I do like what you have done with your electrical system though. After my experience and this experience it makes a whole lot of sense. How much did it cost to set up the isolators? The last boat I chartered had a separate battery switch just for the starting. Loosing all power really sucks.
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  #68  
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
Wow.

I didn't realize that they made paintbrushes that wide.
Thank you. You just made my day!
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  #69  
Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Last year I installed a battery isolation system just to avoid this type of problem. Now I don't need to worry about whether the house or start batteries are being discharged. The start battery is always isolated automatically. It is conceivable though that some damage could occur to the battery area: fire, mechanical damage, etc. that would trash all the batteries. Without a backup, you'd be in trouble. I think a small, charged battery, stashed in a safe place, together with a spare starter is probably minimizing the risk of getting into this kind of fix. I have 200w. of solar panel power as well which works quite well when there is light.

The idea of attaching the engine to the boom seems crazily risky. When the line around the engine pulley keeps winding once the engine starts...oops. I guess if there were no other option...but wow.
We stash one of those portable batteries that have built in jumper cables, and can be recharged easily by plugging in. It also lets us use our high pressure air scoprego pump to reinflate or top off the dinghy when its in the water .

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  #70  
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail;1042324[url=http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=1000309&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50523&subdeptNum=50543&classNum=50548
WEST MARINE 600A Jump-Starter with Air Compressor and 12V Power Supply at West Marine[/url]
Chef,
Great idea, have you tried to start the engine just using this power pack?

My little boat came with one of these to power a trolling motor. It came in handy before the battery died. If it jump starts a diesel it should be standard issue on sailboats.
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